Well I See BART at Least Giving Lip Service to My Suggestions.
I've been noticing a few blurbs here and there in the paper lately about BART's "intention" to "improve" service. They consist of vague allusions to "expanded service" "cleaner facilities" "better customer service" and the like. It smacks of some kind of unaccountable ad campaign to solicit a fatter slice of the state's transportation dollars. In one blurb they mentioned that they were going to hire more BART cops, which if you've read any of my other related postings, seems like a humongous waste of taxpayer and rider money. Then they seemed to not push that idea, although I'm sure it would slide in quietly if they get the funding they seek. There was NO mention of reduced fares at all, in fact I'd suspect that a fare increase would swiftly follow to pay for all the "service improvements," read "more uniformed, armed, pensioned thugs to keep us safe from mobs angry as we continue NOT to do our jobs." Briefly alluded to were "more cars during peak commute hours." There is no mention of how many more cars, if operating hours would be expanded in response to clamoring demand from riders, how the cars will be made cleaner, more bike friendly, what "expansion" means or even "improvement." There is no mention of increased accountability, reliability, no concrete plan set forth on any issue whatsoever. I was wondering if anybody else thought that this propaganda campaign sounded fishy and if anybody's seen anything concrete coming from BART's bullshit factory?
- Big Daddy's blog
- Login or register to post comments
bullshit factory? is it the
bullshit factory? is it the one you own?
Do you have anything
Do you have anything meaningful to contribute to this discussion? If not, perhaps you should just stick to driving the train.
barttrainoperator - I think
barttrainoperator -
I think you are referring to the Bullshit Factory that Big Daddy claims to own, but he was only employed at for a brief period of time before being terminated for sodomizing his brother, also employed at the factory. At the Bullshit Factory, Big Daddy held the position of entry-level janitor trainee. He now claims to sit on the Board of Director of the factory.
He posts regularly on the BullshitFactoryRage.com forum of the reforms he claims to have sparked and the lip service that the CEO pays him, although we all know really it is he who is full of shit.
Hmmm.
I guess that's a huge,
I guess that's a huge, resounding "NO" on the "meaningful contribution" as usual, eh PP?
Big Daddy: What planet do
Big Daddy:
What planet do you live on? Or closer to home, which country? Because it's obviously not here where ad campaigns and propaganda - those veiled promises your life will be better if you use their product (be it toothpaste, washing detergent or mass transit) are the accepted norm for every day life in the corporate world.
Welcome to America, the biggest bullshit factory in the world. Get used to it.
And PS - regrding another post of yours under a different subject, NO MASS TRANSIT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD IS FREE. BART, among them, can't run on nothing.
Get over it.
Come on Long-Term! Get
Come on Long-Term! Get enlightened, will you? This is the United States of America in the 21st Century. Don't you think we can and should provide better than The Worst Public Transportation in the World? But worst of all, you're a liar. I won't say "ignorant" because I don't know if that's true or if you were just too lazy to spend 5 minutes checking your own "facts" on Google before positing them as the truth.
"Free systems
There are a large number of free bus services. Some of these are funded by private businesses (such as the merchants in a shopping mall) in the hope that doing so will increase sales or other revenue from increased foot traffic or ease of travel. Some, such as airport connectors, are funded by government agencies to ease bottlenecks or fill short gaps in the transport network, or as part of the services offered by a public facility. Employers often operate free shuttles as a benefit to their employees, or as part of a congestion mitigation agreement with a local government.
Some activists promote the idea that all the public transportation in a given city or community should be free. They claim that this would make the system more accessible and fair for low-income residents, and provide benefits such as decreased congestion, decreased air pollution from cars and related improvements in public health, fewer traffic accidents, easier parking, savings from reduced wear and tear on roads, and savings from not having to pay for fare collection equipment and personnel.
Examples of City Wide Free Transport
Whidbey Island and Camano Island, Washington State - since 1987
Chapel Hill, North Carolina
Vail, Colorado - over 20 hours of service every day during Winter
Logan, Utah and Cache Valley - Logan since 1992 and Cache Valley since 2000
Clemson, South Carolina
Commerce, California
Châteauroux, France
Compiègne, France; free bus services since 1990s
Hasselt, Belgium - free bus services since July 1, 1997 (after increasing bus service substantially), which made expensive investments in streets and parking facilities unnecessary.
Lübben, Germany - influenced by Hasselt
Mariehamn, Finland - in addition to free bus services, persons and bicycles travel free of charge with the archipelago ferries (you pay a fee for motorcycles, cars, caravans and other vehicles).
Nova Gorica, Slovenia - since April 2006.
Türi, Estonia
Vitré, France - since spring 2001.
Övertorneå, Sweden - even 70 km free rides on local buses in this rural community
Examples of Limited Free Transport
Ann Arbor, Michigan — free bus services between University of Michigan campuses and student housing. UofM students are now also able to ride all routes of the AATA buses for free by showing their student card. While not "free for all" it is included in the package for students. Also, AATA runs a service called "the Link" which runs around the downtown and campus area and is currently free (for everyone) to ride.
Auckland, New Zealand — a free CBD loop service links the ferry terminus, railway station, universities, theatres, casino, galleries and shopping districts using hybrid electric buses.
Austin, Texas - free bus service (under citywide bus system Capital Metropolitan Transportation Authority) is provided between the University of Texas campus and student housing, downtown trolley buses are free as well. Regular bus routes are free during "Ozone Action Days" to encourage more car owners to ride the bus and combat high levels of ozone pollution on a given day.
Brisbane, Australia has free bus trips around "The Loop" in the CBD on two routes mirroring each other, varying only because of Brisbane's one-way street grid.
Calgary, Canada - Free light rail transit within the downtown core.
Denver, Colorado — Free 16th Street Mall shuttle bus downtown; free transit for many public school students
Dordrecht — bus and ferry, some Saturdays at the end of each year
Gent — free night bus services (weekends only)
Halifax, Nova Scotia - free bus route around the downtown area
Huddersfield, England - Free Townbus daytime bus services in town centre
Leeds, England - Free Citybus daytime bus services in city centre
London, England - buses and trams are free for people under 16, and students aged 16 and 17. People 60 or over and eligible disabled folks ride the entire system for free.
Manchester, England — Free "Metroshuttle" daytime bus services in city centre
Melbourne in Australia has a free tram around the city center, and a free bus to popular tourist attractions. Both of these connect to other public transport. Free public transport is sometimes offered on major holidays such as Christmas and New Years Eve.
Noordwijk/Oegstgeest — Leiden Transferium — The Hague, express bus, running on weekdays during daytime, free of charge as a test during 2004; it was intended for commuters working in The Hague and living in Leiden or beyond who would otherwise travel by car to the Hague, to promote parking at the Transferium and continuing the journey by bus; the aim was to reduce road traffic congestion between Leiden and The Hague. The test was paid by the province of South Holland. It was discontinued in 2005.
Perth, Australia has free bus and train trips around the city centre (the "Free Transit Zone"), including three high-frequency Central Area Transit (CAT) bus routes. This is also in Fremantle and recently added in Joondalup.
Pittsburgh, PA Free "T" light rail service within downtown. Also, students at Carnegie Mellon University and the University of Pittsburgh receive free rides with a school ID.
Portland, Oregon (the "Fareless Square"), Seattle, Washington (the "Ride Free Area") and Calgary, Alberta (the "7th Avenue Free Fare Zone") offer free public transit within their downtowns.
Renesse (mun. Schouwen-Duiveland), Netherlands — free bus services in the area (in summer only)
Seattle, Washington — Metro Transit buses are free from 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. in Downtown Seattle.[4]
Sydney in Australia also offers occasional free public transport travel to and from events at particular times, notably New Years Eve celebrations in Sydney CBD, or to ANZAC War Memorial Services for veterans. The rationale is a mix of traffic reduction and cultural recognition.
Tarbes in France offers a year-long free shuttle bus around the city, linking the main spots.
Wakefield, England - Free Citybus daytime bus services in city centre
Washington, D.C. —Congressional Subway — small free metro system
Zagreb, Croatia - buses and trams are free for university students
Community bicycle programs, providing free bicycle for short-term public use.
some ferries, such as the Staten Island Ferry, the Woolwich Ferry and the IJ ferries in Amsterdam, which are used as an alternative to bridges, which would have been very high in the port. These are free, just as a bridge would have been.
short-distance 'public transport' such as elevator, escalator, moving sidewalk (horizontal and inclined); these are often part of a larger public transport system or business (e.g. shop), of which the products and services are not free."
http://www.answers.com/topic/public-transport
This information page also opens with a fantastic brief history of U.S. rail service (although I'd have liked to have seen mention of "Taken for a Ride" and GM's role in the demise of our national commuter railways) ending with an interesting breakdown of government subsidies contributing to our "nery nearly the worst in the world" public transit ranking.
"The triumph of the private automobile was greatly aided by federal policy. Unlike European governments, Washington treated public transportation as if it were a private business, while regarding the motorcar as worthy of immense public subsidies. Indeed, Senator Gaylord Nelson of Wisconsin reported that between 1945 and 1980, 75 percent of government expenditures on transport went for highways, and only 1 percent went to public buses, trolleys, or subways. The inevitable result of the bias in American policy, a bias that began even before the Interstate Highway Act of 1956 and one that has no counterpart in either Europe or Asia, was that by 1991 the United States had the world's best road system and very nearly its worst public transit offerings."
I live on planet Earth, in the United States of America, Berkeley, California - a place known for blazing trails, adopting innovation, welcoming difference, contributing to the welfare of the community and maintain idealism. A place where intelligent people think for themselves and care about others and are not mindless puppets to the media's propaganda. A place where people do not accept something shitty just because it's "the norm in the corporate world," a world we resoundingly eschew.
Watch The Corporation http://www.thecorporation.com/ to understand the true murderous, anti-social, psychopathic nature of corporations and maybe you'll resist their thrall more vigorously.
Every single one of your
Every single one of your examples are limited, either by space or time-frame or are in small towns/rural areas. And the majority are BUS services. BART is not a bus. BART is mass-transit, not "Gent — free night bus services (weekends only)."
You equate "Vail, Colorado - over 20 hours of service every day during Winter" with a 365-day service? What happens in Vail the rest of the time?? And how many people use this system in Vail? How many miles does it cover? Through how municipalities and counties? How many people does it employ to keep whatever mode of transportation it uses in clean, working order?
And Austin, Texas' "Regular bus routes are free during "Ozone Action Days." Gee, to me that sounds a lot like "Spare the Air" when BART and A/C Transit and other modes of people-movers around the Bay Area have been FREE.
I understand you live in Berkeley. Wish I had that luxury. I instead live in the real world where, like it or not, the realities are much less dream-like. I love the idea of Utopia. It just ain't here in the 21st century.
And PS - I no longer OWN a car, much less buy into "the-auto-rules-our-world" philopsopy. I happen to enjoy riding BART and in relation to the costs of owning and operating a vehicle, I find BART economical, practical and (for the most part) safe.
BART free? Remember spare
BART free? Remember spare the air days last year and what a cluster fuck it was. Do you still want free rides with all the thugs running around trying to mug people and the bums sleeping on the trains taking up seats while stinking up the whole car?
Many regular paying riders complained due to the increase of riders and freeloaders.
I couldn't agree more with
I couldn't agree more with both of these posts (below Big Dipshit's).
Guys, lets face it. Big Douche is a reactionary - he thrives off of arguments and conflict. We've been through this before with his "Free public transportation / BART" post several months ago. We ignored him and he went away for a while. But not before that post got heated and very emotional.
But, speaking of his examples...
Wow, free public transit on the third Saturday in July every fourth year between 1am and
3am in rual Mendocino county! Pretty cool! We should model BART after that one....
Let's just let this one go, guys.
It's probably more accurate
It's probably more accurate to just say that BD states his arguments and opinions so as to inflame people so much that the points he tries to make are lost in smoke. Not to mention that his posts tend to be rambling diatribes for and/or against far too many issues and matters. The bottom line is that it seems to be much easier to focus on the messenger than the hard-to-decipher message. For example, there really is nothing wrong with the idea of free public transit. Why wouldn't anyone want it? The only argument repeatedly raised against it seems to be the massive influx of riff-raff that would result, but that isn't a valid argument against free transit, but rather an argument for more and better police enforcement. The lack of ability to see and logically address the points of an argument on this site are just plain amazing.
You are correct that Chapel
You are correct that Chapel Hill, North Carolina has free transit service. Until I moved to San Francisco a year ago, I lived in Chapel Hill for 25 years. However, I don't think you can equate a bus-only system in a college town of 50,000 (a number that includes university students) with the Bay Area.
Chapel Hill's busy system became "free" about eight years ago. I say "free" because, while I benefited from the decision to scrap the 75-cent fares, nothing is free: the buses still cost money to operate. Two things happened. First, the already-exorbitant property taxes in Chapel Hill rose again.
But the real impetus for getting free transit was to allow UNC to get rid of some of its on-campus parking lots in favor of revenue-generating buildings, particularly near the hospital and medical school. So, the university underwrites 50% of the operating costs of Chapel Hill Transit and offers to students, faculty and staff free permits for off-campus park and ride lots. The money to fund the system, of course, comes from the taxpayers of the entire state of North Carolina, so a person in Charlotte or Wilmington who will likely never ride the "free" buses has to pay for my ability to hop on without digging in my couch cushions for change.
Finally, Chapel Hill has approximately 8 homeless people (I would recognize each of them) and no roving gangs of mini-thugs that take over the buses.
It's nice to hear that
It's nice to hear that Chapel Hill is such a nice place.
I remember the transit was also free when I attended Umass in the Amherst/Hadley/Northampton area. I don't know the full extent of it.
The list I posted was merely cut and pasted from the referenced website after a 5 minute Googlesearch to refute the comment about "NO MASS TRANSIT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD IS FREE" and was in no way meant to be truly comprehensive.
I didn't even read the list. I just noted that there seemed to be plenty of systems to disprove the "NO MASS TRANSIT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD IS FREE" comment and cut and pasted it.
As for PP, who claims to be one of the army of worthless BART pigs, I've never seen a bigger waste of taxpayer money than the 39 million dollars that army of incompetent dildoes command to do absolutely nothing as evidenced by their conspicuous absence and impotence on the Spare the Air days mentioned.
This wannabe pig NEVER, EVER has any positive suggestions or actual feedback that isn't a juvenile personal attack and this pig's worthlessly lazy attitude towards life is exemplified in a perfect piglike attitude summed up in it's own closing "Let's just let this one go, guys." This pig would like us all to just let it go so that these worthless BARTpigs can continue to get fat off public money for NOT doing their jobs.
It really pisses me off to hear these societal leeches constantly trying to shout down those of us who want better for our society and encouraging the anesthetization of the masses.
So, where the fuck were those hundreds of BART stormtroopers when "all the thugs running around trying to mug people and the bums sleeping on the trains taking up seats?" Drinking coffee and trying to get laid in their $100,000 BARTpig luxury sedans as usual I'm guessing.
Taking up more than one seat I'm sure is illegal, where were the BARTpigs? I know mugging is illegal, so where were the BARTpigs?
There are only 42 BART stations. There are 300 BARTpigs. Where the fuck were they? I don't know all the numbers, but even 50 BARTpigs could cover every single station plus 8 trains. That's a shitload of pig coverage folks. So where the fuck were they when all this crime was going on? I'm not saying we don't need BARTpigs. We just need much, much better BARTpigs who actually do their jobs.
Come on, they cost over 39 million dollars a year. Do you really feel they earn it?
As for better police, I'm all for it, but "more" by no means equals "better."
You can hire 10,000 pigs and install cameras on every inch of every platform and you will still get mugged if you don't take responsibility for yourself.
We should switch to an all volunteer Guardian Angel type system that ACTUALLY provides real security.
My suggestion, if you're really worried about your safety: buy a gun, learn how to use it and carry it with you at all times.
I'm sure many regular riders were put out and annoyed by the increase in demand. But I'd be more apt to blame that on deplorable BART management not increasing service commensurately with the obviously increased demand as I see them regularly do.
Guess what? If ridership is expected to be double or more, then service has to at least double too. Duh.
I'd sure like to see somebody research just how much BART increased their service to accommodate the anticipated (they've had plenty of Spare the Air Days before, so obviously they knew what to expect) increase in ridership.
When people are jammed into overcrowded trains after waiting too long they will become agitated and misbehave. Count on it. This is not rocket science. If service is good and air conditioning is pumping (removing airborne odors), then tempers ease and people behave better.
Funding for making BART free should come from a gas tax, tolls, parking revenues, etc. The idea is to remove cars from the road, ease congestion, clean the air, cool the planet, improve health, reduce road maintenance expenditures and accidents/deaths/medical expenses/enforcement and emergency costs associated with them, etc. so drivers should shoulder the burden for the privilege and convenience they enjoy at everyone else's expense.
They don't seem to mind paying $4 a gallon. I'm sure they won't mind a few more dollars here and there. They are a HUGE menace to all of our health and welfare after all.
Okay Mr. Fancypants... You
Okay Mr. Fancypants...
You said...
We should switch to an all volunteer Guardian Angel type system that ACTUALLY provides real security.
My response to that would be... Uh...
What, are you fuckin' nuts?!?
I don't need a red beret and sad story to "Observe and Report" some shit that I know is wrong.
Fuck 'em! They wanna contribute in a security capacity they should be cops, or doorknob shakers. I hear the Minutemen are looking for UN-SKILLED VOLUNTEERS also.
Regarding the places with "FREE" transportation service that you listed.
I either DON'T live, WON'T live or CAN'T live in almost all of the places noted.
Yes, living includes working.
Thought you slipped those two "hippie island communes" in Washington state passed me didn't 'ya?
BTW, you missed Eritrea. I hear they have a great free system, provided you are up to date on all innoculations. Including the weird ones.
No disrespect, but...
i don't wanna live in Eritrea either
jbap21
jbap... Buddy... You have
jbap... Buddy...
You have me sitting here laughing.
Out loud. My youngest just looked up and asked me, "Mommy, what's wrong?"
That was funny.
But yes, I agree.
Question: Are 300
Question: Are 300 "BARTpigs" doing what a force of 50 could supposedly do?
I'm a first-time poster, and I know I picked a hell of a thread to lose my comment virginity. Please do me the favor of considering my thoughts.
I'm going by Wikipedia, which says that about 210 of them are sworn, and about 100 of them are non-sworn. I assume that the 100 are mostly supervisors, phone operators, dispatchers, human resources, and other necessary operations to keep a small police force running. So we're actually dealing with an active force of closer to 210. Please correct me if I'm wrong; it's hard to make a point with bad numbers.
Most stations are open 7 days a week, from 4am until 1am. That's 21 hours a day * 7 days a week = 147 work hours per week. Your logic seems to say that each of your 50 awesome team members (1 per station + 8 on trains, right?) would be available 147 hours a week. In the real world, people work 40 hours a week: 147 / 40 = 3.675 officers to keep one station staffed around the clock, assuming everyone works exactly 40 hours a week without taking a single day off. Since 42 stations * 3.675 officers per station = 155 people, now we only have about 60 left over in this ideal world. 60 spare employees / 3.675 employees per day = 16.3 spare officers in the system on any given day.
If your eyes glazed over from the math: 40 hour work weeks mean that if every BART station has exactly one officer on duty at all times, there are less than 20 officers left in greater Bay Area to "call for backup". That also means that the one officer per station has to handle the platform, lobby, and (sometimes) the parking lot at the same time. That barely seems sufficient to keep the system running, let alone ensuring the safety of every single passenger. For the quality of service you want, making both the lobby and platform safe from thugs, terrorists, and creepy people, you'll need about twice as many BART cops. Not 10,000 of them, just 500.
=
Now, Spare the Air days are interesting. You only know it's a Spare the Air day as of noon the day before, right? So suddenly BART has to deal with a huge ridership increase, but is only budgeted for 16 officers above and beyond the 1-per-station allocation that I hope is more-or-less constant throughout the day. They could call up more officers, but they only have 18 hours' notice. Frankly, I don't blame them for not being able to keep up with Spare the Air demand; they're stretched pretty damn thin, and 18 hours is pretty poor notice to double the workforce.
=
Could BART be free? Maybe. I'm glad there's already so much subsidy in sales taxes and bond measures anyway. But I am definitely willing to pay to get where I'm going, and I for one would be glad to pay a few cents more a trip to hire a few more noble "pigs" to feel safer when I travel.
BerkleyBARTer - You did pick
BerkleyBARTer -
You did pick one hell of a thread to get your cherry popped with.
But... I must say, you've done your homework. I appreciate that, and I appreciate your recognition of the things we do - and the things we do right. We (at BART Police) really do try. Sure, there are some bad apples. Just one spoils the whole bunch. But that's a different topic.
We have a budget for 206 officers. We (just like almost every police agency in the country) are suffering a major deficit in Officers. Currently we have about 170 sworn personnel - and that's the high end estimate. We're trying to recruit laterals and newbies. So we're hurtin' for personnel.
You're gonna have to add another 3 labor-hours per day on to the equation you gave. BART Police operates 24/7. There are rights-of-way, facilities, maintenance yards, and stations that still need to get patrolled even during the wee hours of the morning. Our response time is pretty good, but could be better.
More sworn Officers would also boost on-time performance. How many of you has been on a train with a BART Police hold? And just sat at the platform to wait for us to show up because we're at another call or far away? It can take 4 to 5 minutes at the platform waiting for PD response.
Our deployment leaves something to be desired... and I think we need more Officers on the trains PROACTIVELY enforcing laws - not just when someone calls something in. Plainclothes and uniformed on trains would do wonders when it comes to 640(b) offenses and graffiti, property crimes, and theft.
Thanks PPID911, and thanks
Thanks PPID911, and thanks for your hard work. It hadn't occurred to me that BART police have a lot to watch even when the stations are locked up, and I think that those extra hours you mentioned strengthen the point I was trying to make. I have seen significant police delays, and recognize that officers can't be everywhere at once; I shudder to think what would happen if something significant were to happen, including anything regarding Homeland Security. I think it'll only take a big problem, or consistent smaller delays, before your funding situation changes for the better.
Big Daddy, I definitely agree that I haven't seen BART officers doing all that much, but your argument [that they are incompetent] seems to hinge on that idea that results had ought to be visible with only one-sixth of the force. Conversely, I've never seen a BART officer slacking off, or ignoring something in need of police attention; I maintain that their funding-caused scarcity is to blame. As unsustainable as it may be, I would love to see what would happen if double or triple the force patrolled our stations and trains; I think we'd be seeing a lot more passengers and a lot less trouble.
Welcome, BerkelyBARTer!
Welcome, BerkelyBARTer! Although I have daily commuted through lots of stations, right now I am a Hayward BARTer. I challenged the original thread poster on the FREE issue and I stand by that assertion because even if no fare is collected on some rural or inner-city bus loop systems, that money is collected via subsidies or taxes which makes the system not free for those paying those taxes. Therefore, I stand by my original comment that no mass transit anywhere in the world is FREE.
I also want to ask Big Daddy where he gets the figure of 50 cops to cover all stations and 8 trains. 8 trains?? During any given work day there are (I think) 46 trains running at the same time. One officer for every station/every train during their 10-hour shift equals a minimum of 88. Considering the first trains roll out at 4 a.m. and the last train stops after 1 a.m., that's 21 hours which means that 2nd shift. Plus, as PPID911 points out, there's a third shift of officers patrolling BART property all night long. Can Big Daddy honestly believe that an all-volunteer force of over 200 would be willing to man/patrol every station, every train, every other vital BART location 24/7/365? I doubt it.
I also know the BART Police, Community Service Officers and Station Agents provide a myriad of crucial services that would be non-existent in Big Daddy's idea of utopia. Imagine the chaos! The idea of BART being free and law-less is frightening. The average rider may not pay attention and see them, but I know that in some awful, God-forbid moment every single BART Police Officer would take the bullet to protect me and you and even Big Daddy.
Hmm, 43 stations, but there
Hmm, 43 stations, but there are 46 trains right? So there's trains arriving to all destinations what? about every 45 seconds huh? Might wanna pop your head out and take a look around cause you seem to be seriously clueless.
You'll need to support your bogus statements with links in the future as you now have zero credibility. Perhaps during peak hours they have 46 CARS on the system. So if we guess the average train length at 6 cars (3car trains+10car trains/2) then we confirm my original guess of 8 or so trains on the system during peak hours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit
From that site I especially love this quote "BART relies on unused ticket values, particularly of patrons discarding low-value cards, as a source of revenue, approximated by some to be as high as $9.9 million.[15]" which I've looong complained about. Basically that BART depends on regularly ripping off the public to the tune of $10 million per year thanks to their planned inconvenience to "combine" tickets thereby "stealing" all those low value tickets people can't be bothered to combine ending up in their being discarded and replaced.
Personally I've many times had an agent outright steal my high value, demagnetized ticket to "cover" my fare, more outright, systematized BART theft, which is apparently SOP for BART and its personnel.
Of course I'm still trying to figure out why Californians don't bitch about paying a 5 cent or higher deposit on recyclable containers that they can never recover in full! Please educate me if I'm missing something because the few times I went through great inconvenience to return some returnables I got back a fraction of what I "deposited."
Okay, let's get back on track. You say my 3 second Googlesearch was insufficiently comprehensive or impressive for you to recant your "no mass transit anywhere in the world is free" statement.
I'm wasting more of my time now to respond since I feel this is a very important issue. Here's a nice comment I just stumbled upon "Transit-for-all is the name given to a popular movement arguing for the importance of investment in public transportation.[8] Advocates of transit-for-all initiatives argue that the approximately 70 billion dollars currently assigned to subsidizing cheap oil should be reinvested in public transportation. Supporters of transit-for-all initiatives claim there are three main benefits to such a strategic realignment of resources: first, it will benefit the environment and, therefore, the nation’s health; second, it will increase the economic mobility of citizens currently marginalized because of their geographic isolation and revitalize neighborhoods by reconnecting them to their surroundings; third, it will decrease American dependence on foreign oil, thereby improving U.S. national security. [9] [10]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport#Transit-for-all
Some interesting price/cost savings comparison points discussed:
http://publictransportation.org/facts/
Here's a nice quote in an article on free public transit: "Tom Ammiano: "There's the potential of environmental funds, low emission funds, etcetera, and subsidies."
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=local&id=4403763
Here's an article about Berlin's system, which is on the honor system:
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1490873
They do away with expensive turnstiles and attendants and instead have a group of ticket checkers. Of course these ticket checkers would keep trains and platforms safe and clean as they could enforce the all important "no eating on the train" rules that everyone seems so concerned about and things like cut down on vagrancy, panhandling and vandalism. Here's an "army" whose job it is to constantly patrol stations and trains. Such a system would undoubtedly save untold millions on turnstiles, station agents, BART cops and enhance customer service, security and cleanliness. I think perhaps a plainsclothes force might be even more effective. Of course they, along with virtually every other agency I've ridden, offers an "unlimited ride pass" which BART still refuses to institute. These ideas could all help out this sick system in my opinion.
Free is ideal, but if BART saves a few hundred million dollars cutting out those unecessaries and passes those savings along to say slashing fares in half or lower, then I'm open to exploring alternatives.
Well, I've been reading a lot of articles while writing this and finally found yet another great sounding free bus service in Chattanooga, TN. The article discusses many of the fantastic benefits derived from their free electric busses, which would be especially welcome in a tourist rich city like SF. http://www.helium.com/tm/442726/public-transportation-concernedi-lived
In response to your comment "even if no fare is collected on some rural or inner-city bus loop systems, that money is collected via subsidies or taxes which makes the system not free for those paying those taxes." This is pretty much exactly my point. As I've clarified numerous times previously, I strongly advocate a hefty gasoline tax, toll increases and parking fee increases to subsidize the fare loss. As for other taxes which would be used to subsidize public transit, everything I've read clearly extolls the virtues and benefits derived from improved mass transit. The benefits range from improved health and reduced congestion/less lost productivity spent in traffic, to vitalization of local economies, increased tourism and generally greater interconnectedness of communities. These benefits become much more substantial as we realize that our average age nationally keeps increasing and we must address the needs of elderly, less mobile people who perhaps can no longer drive, or certainly drive far. In other words, it will cost taxpayers something, but they will derive significant benefits, on the order of 4-10 times greater than the cost, in improved air quality, less congestion, greater accessibility to work and services and greater sales potential for local businesses. Also, let us not forget that cars and driving are BY FAR the most dangerous activity that we all regularly engage in and are exposed to. Cars we remove from traffic represent less money spent on emergency services, traffic law enforcement and flow control issues, money saved on all associated automotive costs from insuring and registering to fuel and maintenance. In other words the extra $50 or $100 or even $500 you'd spend in taxes would be offset by thousands of dollars saved in automobile costs because it would be so easy to just jump on a bus to get wherever you're going for free. Of course this would imply that busses and trains ran regularly, frequently and all night and were conveniently accessible. Read up on the early rail systems and how great they were before GM destroyed them to sell diesel engines/busses to the public. http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov1996/takenforaride/
I will not further rehash the minutiae of BART cop schedules. I will just ask again, are they providing 40 million dollars worth of safety and security for BART patrons? And whether there's 300 or 170 of them, if there's only 43 stations and 10 or 20 trains, where the fuck are they all the time? Lastly, crime happens predominantly at night and on weekend nights, when people are high. This means that the shifts should obviously not be equally weighted if "crime" prevention is truly their goal. I just mention this to address the assumption that their shifts are or should be equally divided. Of course there will always be the possibility of some kind of emergency, but you know what? They will never and could never be 100% "ready" to respond to such a thing, like a bomb detonation in the tube or the like. If any such thing happened it would always involve extensive interagency cooperation and that would be the case with 50 or 5000 BART cops. There would be EMTs, bomb squads, fire departments, the coast guard, national guard, whatever. My point being that staffing a transit security agency based on a once in a lifetime emergency scenario is truly folly.
Sorry, that was way more space than I wanted to devote AGAIN to BART pigs.
"BART Police, Community Service Officers and Station Agents provide a myriad of crucial services" - like what? List 10 "crucial" services they provide please. I've never even heard of a Community Service Officer. How much do they get paid?
.......mmmm......Imagining the "chaos" that would ensue without rude station agents with siege mentality and aggressive jack booted thugs threatening the public. I can feel the tension associated with my typical BART ride melting away already.....thank you.
How long did I have to wait for BART police to arrive on the scene from their post at the local Starbucks in their luxury sedan to take that "bullet" you insist will inevitably be heading my way? What a crock.
walnut creek has a free bus
walnut creek has a free bus that will take you from nordstrom to macys and back. i think it even goes to the wc bart station too. so add walnut creek california to your list. vail, co every 3rd sunday of winter, some place in france that is impossible to pronounce, turi, estonia, and the dub cee...free buses!
by the way, i just checked one of these cities - turi estonia - and found the population was only 6,000 peeps. and hasn't grown at all since the 1970's. surely you didn't mean to suggest that the single rusty bus that it takes to haul around the entire population of that bustling center of commerce, turi estonia, is even remotely comparable to free public transportation for the entire bay area??? geez, big daddy...