Never a cop around.........
Is it too much to ask from BART police to at the very least be in the Stations after school, when the kids are getting out and causing problems? I have no problems with the police, it is a tough job, but come the F--- on!There is never a cop in the station when the kids, get out of school and are acting the fool and in many cases not even paying for thier ride!
I was riding home early, and over heard a kid, telling another, 'he never pays, just get off and take the elevator down, no one ever stops me.' I know this is a design flaw, but it is a known flaw, why doesn't BART Police ever, maybe once in a blue moon even, stand by the station, when the kids get out of school?
It is not just Del Norte, Berkley, and Ashby (The stations I use most often), but it is even Walnut Creek, and Rockridge. Never a cop around. I saw one agent at Walnut Creek, trying to get a young kid to pay, but the kid just told him to go to hell, he would be gone by the time BART cops showed up.
I really am not trying to bash BART police. I know they have other duties, reports, patrols, what have you, but when you have a, KNOWN problem at a SET time almost everyday, WHY, the hell are you not out there????
Never a damm cop around when you need one (matter of fact, I seem to have trouble finding the Agents at some of the stations as well....)

I don't get it either. BART
I don't get it either. BART Police is never around when you need them and they aren't watching the lots so what are they doing? Today, there were six of them at the Station Agent's booth at Montgomery just shooting the breeze about nothing. It wouldn't bother me if security wasn't lacking in so many areas on BART.
I also agree with you on the
I also agree with you on the agents too. Is BART cutting its staff way back or something? There should be full-time security at each station, on the trains, as well as a station agent to tend to the forever breaking down ticket and change machines. I don't get it. The more we pay, the less we get.
How exactly is BART supposed
How exactly is BART supposed to pay for a full time security staff at so many stations (by my quick count about 35)? BART already runs deficits. If they add this guess what happens to our fares? The reality is that everything in life is give and take.
first of all, management
first of all, management should take a serious paycut. Come on..Linton making over $300K ?????
how is that justifiable???? Cut the fat at the top and you'd be surprised how much the deficit will shrink.
Is that really true? 300k??
Is that really true? 300k??
I do not believe that BART
I do not believe that BART needs a full time security staff, HOWEVER is it not possible for BART Police to be at a station during KNOWN problem times?? All I am asking is for BART Police to be more Pro-Active and less reactive, then maybe there would be less problems.
There are known issue with the system, I am not asking them to go seek out new problems, hire new staff, or spend more money. I am only asking them to address known problems during known times.
I know there are those who will defend the police until the end of time. I get this. I know they have a tough job, but I am sorry, "They need to be there during known problem times."
Wait until you've had your
Wait until you've had your car messed with a few times or someone follows you, you might change your tune on the need for full-time security.
Whoa, you saw them in the
Whoa, you saw them in the station? I usually have the opposite experience, they seem to be in their cars and never in the station. (except SF) I guess thats because there is no parking lot for them to hide in.
The Agents can't do much
The Agents can't do much without an officer around.. but I guess you saw what happend at Rockridge and WalnutCreek.
So, what happened at
So, what happened at Rockridge? I saw a bunch of kids acting out theer the other day.
df
I think it's the clairmont
I think it's the clairmont middle school. when it lets out the whole neighborhood goes to hell. I have seen the agent yell at them to no avail. and I have been in the mexican restaurant when a worker had to call the police.
loud groups of ghetto kids cursing, using the n-word, disregarding adults and at bart blocking the escalator and turning it off. obviously from parents who don't control their children.
A known problem, which
A known problem, which occurs at a known time and yet not one f'ing cop around. If they would be more visible and started handing out tickets for the fare evaders many of the problems at BART would end.
Where are the BART Police at? I believe, I have discovered a new hobby, it is kind of like bird watching, it is called Cop Spotting. There are a few different kids of BART Police;
FAT and Overweight: The most common of the breed.
Lazy and hard to spot: This is the slimmer of the breed, as he can walk between rain drops, run faster then a road runner when going from the patrol car to the sub-station to hid and fill out reports.
The Cruiser: The breed can be spoted by the noticable patrol, parked side by side in BART parking lots where they hang out, instead of enforcing BART Rules and regulations.
The R.O.A.D. Cop; This officer is Retired On Active Duty just doing his time until he can retire. You can spot this officer by his, "Yea, I am here, but I am not going to do jack spit, unless it happens right in front of me and even then, I may only fill out a field interview card, just to keep you off my back.'
The Worker Cop: The rarest of the rare a police officer who actually shows up to the station, walks around and does his job. If you see, stop and praise him because, you damm sure won't see him often.
If you find any other breed of BART Cop be sure to post your spotting of them.
I thought I had heard it all
I thought I had heard it all until I listened to these kids on BART. Oh, absolutely stomach turning disgusting. I can't believe kids so young would talk like that, not to mention the way they behave and get their food all over the seats like ice cream for example. Really makes you wonder about the parents.
The police were at
The police were at Montgomery and no they weren't arresting anyone and there was no problem in progress. They were just all standing around. Too bad they weren't in the East Bay watching the lots and fare evaders.
I've seen BART cops at
I've seen BART cops at Rockridge. I was watching one of them catch some guy trying to sneak up the elevator. I guess a lot of people try to skip out on fare that way. I think the cop wrote him a ticket and kicked him out. Maybe you're just never around when the cops are there?
Fire them all and then out
Fire them all and then out source to a private contractor for less cost.
Then let the county or city worry about policing their area of BART.
Citations = money.
BART Cops really have it
BART Cops really have it easy compared to other cops (and yet they are paid so well), the biggest daily concern of a BART Cop beside trying to decide, where he is going to eat, is fare evader and the homeless. Both of which they seem to avoid dealing with, as much as possible. When was the last time you heard of a BART Cop being shot? Hmmmmm
BART cops do not issue parking tickets, that is what the CSA do. They do not have to pull anyone over (this is optional), so one of the most dangerous aspects of police work, they seldom do. They do not have to respond to people's homes for demostics (another very dangerous aspect of most police work) and yet BART Police and their supported get offended when you ask, "Why, the hell are you not more visible at the stations?" Sure, they have their reports to write, patrol and security checks to do, but just when the hell do they spend any time in the stations? That is all I want to know.
BART Police are the lazest cops of all times. In fact they should not even be allowed to called cops, or police, they give REAL Police Officer and REAL police Departments a bad name.
Wow. It sounds like you're
Wow. It sounds like you're a BART employee who hates the BART police. Most people don't know what CSA's are, except BART employees.
So, BART employee, let me correct about 20 mistakes you made in that post, and I'm not going to include the basic grammar and spelling errors. Just the facts.
Transit policing is significantly different from Municipal policing, so you're right that BART police are not exactly like city cops. However, saying that the BART police have it easier is not necessarily accurate. BART officers work solo throughout most of their shift and they are responsible for up to three stations, of which are spaced miles apart. How often do you see your local city cops out on foot, walking the neighborhoods, stores, malls, etc? City cops probably spend more time in their patrol cars than BART cops, since BART cops have stations to check and trains to patrol.
What's your point about not hearing about a BART cop being shot? Are you trying to say that because a cop gets shot, they are hard at work? What kind of ignorant question is that? I laughed out loud when I read that because it's absolutely ludicrous! Try again with your attempt at posing some type of philisophical question.
BART police officers do issue parking tickets, so your statement that they "DO NOT" is false. Do you realize that in court, if a witness had been determined to be caught in a lie, everything else they say will be scrutinized to no end? Why should anyone believe what you've said after you've made a statement that is false? There are no CSA's on the weekends, yet there are still parking violations. Who do you think still handles those?
So all you want to know, as you've clearly stated in paragraph two, is "when the hell do they spend any time in the stations?" Here's the answer to your question: This depends and is not based on some type of schedule. You will not always see a BART cop standing at a station at 8am because every day is different. At 8am on Monday, there's probably some homeless laying on a bench in front of a station somewhere, and the BART cops move them along before the commuters come through and think their station is a homeless camp. At 8am on Tuesday, there's probably some person panhandling on a train and harassing passengers. Maybe on Wednesday you'll see an officer at your station, but if you don't, maybe they're at one of the other two stations they have to patrol. How often do you see your local police drive down your street? Personally, I haven't seen one drive down my street in several years!
How exactly do you base your perception that BART police are the lazIest cops of all time? How many departments in the bay area still have foot beats? Not many. The only ones that have regular daily foot patrols are San Francisco PD and BART PD. BART officers walk the length of several 700 foot platforms, walk the length of 10 car trains, climb stairs several times per shift, etc.
I can't help but think that somehow the BART cops wronged you at some point and this is just your aggression towards them. Whatever your profession is, I hope you're not an proof reader because your post reeks of errors that 1st graders make.
Good day.
Anonymous on Tue, 09/12/2006
Anonymous on Tue, 09/12/2006 - 4:24pm wrote;
What's your point about not hearing about a BART cop being shot? Are you trying to say that because a cop gets shot, they are hard at work? What kind of ignorant question is that? I laughed out loud when I read that because it's absolutely ludicrous! Try again with your attempt at posing some type of philisophical question
My only point was a BART Cop is less likey to be shot and therefore, his job is less dangerous compared to say, a Richmond, San Pablo or Oakland PD
There are no CSA's on the weekends, yet there are still parking violations. Who do you think still handles those?
Which stations required weekend validations?
Wow. It sounds like you're a BART employee who hates the BART police. Most people don't know what CSA's are, except BART employees
No, but have been given a ticket by a CSA and had a nice chat on who does the ticketing.
BART police officers do issue parking tickets, so your statement that they "DO NOT" is false. Do you realize that in court, if a witness had been determined to be caught in a lie, everything else they say will be scrutinized to no end? Why should anyone believe what you've said after you've made a statement that is false
There is a differance between a lie: knowing the facts, then stating something something that is not true, versus making a mistake or a flase statement based on wrong information.
I hope you're not an proof reader because your post reeks of errors that 1st graders make.
English is not native to me, so sorry.
>My only point was a BART
>My only point was a BART Cop is less likey to be shot and therefore, his job is less dangerous compared to say, >a Richmond, San Pablo or Oakland PD.
Wrong. No police department is ever exempt from violence against its officers. Nevertheless, did you consider that BART runs through Oakland and Richmond? Guess what? BART cops patrol those stations and drive through those neighborhoods. Since BART Police patrol the entire bay area, they are exposed to many different areas: good and bad. Consider this as well: BART cops have arrested murderers, rapists, robbers, burglars, people with felony warrants, etc. A lot of the time this happens when they have no backup!
>Which stations required weekend validations?
Validations are not the only parking violations at BART. People don't read signs and park in the Station Agent stalls, red zones, hadicapped parking, etc. People don't obey the 24 hour rule or park more than 72 hours and get their cars cited and towed. This is usually done by the BART officers.
>There is a differance between a lie: knowing the facts, then stating something something that is not true, >versus making a mistake or a flase statement based on wrong information.
I'll take that as you admitting that you were wrong, which is quite nobel of you. Get your facts straight before you make statements or complaints.
>English is not native to me, so sorry.
It's just as easy for someone to be critical of your language skills as it is for you to be critical of a job you know nothing about.
I'll take that as you
I'll take that as you admitting that you were wrong, which is quite nobel of you. Get your facts straight before you make statements or complaints.
Yes, I was wrong on some of my points. The only way to learn and be correct is to voice an oponion and have someone, such as yourself educate me and the public.
Well, I rarely see them do
Well, I rarely see them do anything about the homeless. Once in a great while. The same gross guy has been sleeping at north concord or on the bike trail behind the station for weeks now. The same old guys are always at Concord too. If the homeless didn't litter, I would probably be a bit more tolerant but they make a gross mess wherever they go.
Like you said, transit
Like you said, transit policing is different than municipal policing, they SHOULD BE IN THE STATIONS AND ON THE TRAINS and there should be a designated officer for each station, not one officer who covers three stations miles apart; that is just like having no one at all. No wonder no one will complain on a train, the wait is too long for an officer and holds up everyone from getting to where they are going wheres if an officer was on the train, the offender can just be removed without holding the train up.
I am a police officer, who
I am a police officer, who rides Bart, not because it is perfect, but because it is the best there is right now. For the person who wrote, "BART cops really have it easy..." on 09/12 at 1:35pm, you have no clue what you are writing about.
The city I patrol is very large, and yet when I need a second unit, one is there within 90 seconds. This is because our beats overlap, and the officers will immediatley respond to the nearest officer on a stop.
I watched a Bart cop fight with a suspect for nearly 3 minutes, while I was stuck in a train trying to get the train engineer (?) to open the door and let me out to help. They do not have it easy! If I made each and every stop wondering if I had a second unit to cover me if needed, I'd go to another department. More police is needed, and a death on the job, does not mean the city is tougher. It means the officers need to be tougher!
P.S. Who taught you how to spell... "demostics"??? Did you mean domestics, and if so how did you get a job in the first place?
As noted in my past posting,
As noted in my past posting, English is not native to me, so often I make mistakes. I find it telling, those who are in Law Enforcement attack the messenger, and are very insulting. No, I do not work for fast food, but if I did, it is honest work, what is your point? A person who works fast food, is not allowed to ask questions? Fact is, I teach math. English is very difficult, but I am working on this.
As mentioned in my past post, I admit when I have been misinformed. I guess, you missed, it.
lucky for you. your ride is
lucky for you. your ride is free, just show your badge to the agent and go through the side gate.
And that officers
And that officers willingness to help is why they should.
Your just a f'n idiot. You
Your just a f'n idiot. You put your life on the line everyday and see if you still have the same opinion. your probably a freaking cashier somwhere that barely earns a living.
Stick to what you know best -- "Welcome to McDonald's - May I Help You?"
Your a Fucking idiot.
We've discussed this already
We've discussed this already in other threads. No county or city agencies want the responsibility of patrolling BART properties. I'm also making a pretty safe assumption that you know next to nothing about law enforement, so here's a little lesson on why multiple agencies can't patrol BART.
As it stands now, ONE department handles all criminal cases occurring on BART properties. This means that all ot those cases run through one computer system and one records department and one investigations division. By delegating authority to municipal departements, ALL of that paperwork would be handled by each department, ultimately causing a never ending mess of multi-jurisdictional reports, each typed on different computer software and typed in different formats. This would wreak havoc on the court systems, as well as the municipal or county agencies.
You think it would cost less? Consider this: Do you think every bay area police agency uses the same type or radio system? This might be a shot in the dark here, but DON'T BART TRAINS MOVE? They travel through several cities and different counties within minutes. If someone calls in a crime while the train is in one city, and that city takes the call; and suddenly the train is in yet another city. Do you realize what an extended response time that would create? Unless the police departments are using the same exact radios, they cannot communicate with each other and this would create a grave safety issue of passengers and the police.
Final lesson: Don't criticize something you know nothing about. Take your private contractor ideas and apply them to the corporate world, or the McDonald's restaurant you work in.
I have an idea, let's fire
I have an idea, let's fire all the BART cops. Then when something happens on BART or in a station, see how long it takes the local police to get there. Most local police won't step foot on BART property.
If you have concerns about BART police, or stinky passengers, or smelly cars, or broken escalators, show up with some other riders at the next BART Board meeting and tell them how you feel. They are elected officials. They will actually listen. Can anyone even name their BART rep? Tip off the press and you'll be on the 6:00 news. The media loves BART stories.
How about replacing the
How about replacing the station agents with BART police or if that won't work then staffing each station with a police officer in addition to a station agent? There seems to be plenty of BART-crime to keep an officer on-site full-time at each station ... fare evasion, smoking in no smoking zones, loitering, and more serious matters. When crime is slow, why couldn't they also do whatever it is the station agents do now? If it's station agents or police, I vote for the police, especially these days. The police could be funded in part by the salaries of the station agents, by the fares that are now evaded, and by monies gained through issuing fines or tickets. One problem is that the station agents do basically no enforcement. The second is that too much time passes by the time BART police travel from one station to another whenever there is a police incident. Third, an increased enforcement presence is good for all riders and serves as a deterrent in many ways. Just an idea.
Perhaps the schools, or the
Perhaps the schools, or the parents of the schoolchildren, should be taking responsibility for the behavior of the children? If BART police are necessary, then perhaps the schools should be paying for this?
df
BART is their own worst
BART is their own worst enemy.
They really offer no incentive to ride anymore. As the costs go up for parking and fares, then BART should expect more fare evasions.
As far as the BART police go, they need a leader that isn't afraid to "kick a little ass" and get things done.
Allow their officers to patrol more, enforce more, and do their job without the fear of backlash from the public and those whiney ACLU/watchdog groups.
someone on a usenet group
someone on a usenet group did the math on the fares from 1 year after they were runing. with a year by year figures and BART is actually cheaper against the consumer price index.
I need to search for it, it was quite interesting. but the minimum should be in the $2 range, and that was before gas prices doubled.
BART should stick to the CPI rather than big jumps every few years.
I have an even better idea
I have an even better idea
I wish BART would double ticket prices--the trains are way too crowded for my taste.
I am being lazy, but here
I am being lazy, but here are some numbers for you to consider:
The Following was written in 2000:
BART prices increased along with inflation (CPI),
then a one-station hop would cost almost $2.40 today.
.
Take a look at the chart below. The inflation statistic
is from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Enjoy.
Year Pct Chg Change Price
======= ======== ======= ======
1972 3.4 ----- $0.60
1973 8.7 $0.05 $0.65
1974 12.3 $0.08 $0.73
1975 6.9 $0.05 $0.78
1976 4.9 $0.04 $0.82
1977 6.7 $0.06 $0.88
1978 9.0 $0.08 $0.96
1979 13.3 $0.13 $1.08
1980 12.5 $0.14 $1.22
1981 8.9 $0.11 $1.33
1982 3.8 $0.05 $1.38
1983 3.8 $0.05 $1.43
1984 3.9 $0.06 $1.48
1985 3.8 $0.06 $1.54
1986 1.1 $0.02 $1.56
1987 4.4 $0.07 $1.63
1988 4.4 $0.07 $1.70
1989 4.6 $0.08 $1.78
1990 6.1 $0.11 $1.88
1991 3.1 $0.06 $1.94
1992 2.9 $0.06 $2.00
1993 2.7 $0.05 $2.05
1994 2.7 $0.06 $2.11
1995 2.5 $0.05 $2.16
1996 3.3 $0.07 $2.23
1997 1.7 $0.04 $2.27
1998 1.6 $0.04 $2.31
1999 2.7 $0.06 $2.37
If the cost of a ride based on the CPI in 2000, from one station to the next would have been $2.40, then how much would it be today, based on the CPI? The current rate, is $1.40
In 2003 the following was posted:
went to the Board Meeting today (13 Feb)
Some highlights:
BART needs 56 trains ready at 4 AM, weekdays. Recently one day, out
of 669 cars, 616 were ready at 4 AM - a new record.
BART is looking to implement predictable, small fare increases, every
2 to 4 years, to track the CPI. Since the last fare increase, BART
raised fares 5 %, while the CPI went up 20 percent.
The reserved parking space program has not taken off as fast as they
expected, however, they still expect to make 2.7 million this fiscal
year (FY 2003 ends 30 June 2003) - instead of the expected 3.8
million.
I am just being lazy, and do not wish to run the numbers myself, but I have faith those numbers are pretty solid.
MJ
Fares should not necessarily
Fares should not necessarily keep pace with any price index. Public transportation exists for various purposes including reducing road congestion and auto-based pollution, etc. It should also be "public," i.e., affordable for most to use on a regular basis. Public transportation should not be expected to generate a profit or necessatily even break even or have fares keep pace with inflation since other important purposes are supposely being served by the transportation system. BART doesn't seem to garner enough public funding to adequately underwrite system operations while Bay area citizens pay through the nose in the form of escalating fares, extra sales taxes, and, I think, payments through Federal, State, and property taxes. BART is high cost by virtually any measure and at the rate it is going fewer and fewer will be able to afford to ride BART.