Submitted by bartarded on Wed, 09/08/2010 - 2:37pm.
The biggest threat to BART's security is how easy it is to sneak into the system. Maybe after they take care of that they can start frisking people.
I wouldn't mind it if they checked bags at least. It's kind of scary how people are allowed to bring huge suitcases on BART without any checks. It would be extremely easy for someone to wheel a bomb onto BART and blow it up in the middle of the Transbay Tube.
Submitted by bikesonbart on Wed, 09/08/2010 - 3:39pm.
Actually, I'm not as worried about getting blown up as I am the loss of my civil liberties. You know, that unlawful search and seizure stuff, and no, I don't have anything to hide.
Submitted by bikesonbart on Mon, 09/13/2010 - 11:52am.
I never said I'd refuse. I do use air transportation, but I don't really feel that the TSA is anything more than an obstruction.
The point is that since 9/11, we as a nation seem all to ready to give up our freedom because of the perceived threat of terror. What was that thing that made this country so great and so different from others in the world? Oh yea, The Constitution. To bad things like these PATCO searches and the Patriot Act trample all over it.
Don't worry, you're not getting rid of me and my bike that easily. As a matter of fact, I've been able to get several of my coworkers to use their bikes and BART to commute to work.
Now get out of the door way so people can get on and off the train.
What the hell is going on (in PA again no less)? This is exactly what I'm talking about.
No, I'm not some sort of professional agitator from Berkeley. I'm just a guy from disturbia trying to make a living and support my family while chasing the American dream. :)
Submitted by Return ATO on Wed, 09/08/2010 - 5:24pm.
Yes! Let's get the racial profiling on! Random my ass. Guess this could be being pulled the airline security line to get the full body, cavity search. Honestly I don't think you can single out "big bags" just because someone is carrying one. A bomb does not necessarily need a big delivery package. A larger security presence would be nice, but I don't think that will happen. Any sort of full screening process would most likely get DHS involved and I don't think we want that in the BART system. Better use of funds would be make it more difficult for patrons to access the system without fare. I know that is a common complaint seen here and voiced by patrons.
Submitted by bartarded on Thu, 09/09/2010 - 9:09am.
Well, it does not have to be friskings and bag checks? They could install "explosive sniffers" that you have to go through to get into the system. Most explosives of the type used for home-made bombs are easy to detect.
It would be even easier to put a bomb into one of the millions of normal-sized purses, briefcases, or backpacks that get carried on trains every day. Why bother with a huge, obvious suitcase?
Submitted by sasqwatsch on Thu, 09/09/2010 - 7:06am.
In Israel, ALL bags, no matter what size, are checked. At restaurants, theaters, markets. Makes no difference what race. Done for public safety, citizens readily comply. So for our train system this would be a good thing.
Submitted by Return ATO on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 5:19pm.
BART would not be the one doing the screening that would be left up to big government and the DHS and the mall cops, sorry TSA. I would feel none the safer.
Submitted by uneasyrider on Tue, 09/14/2010 - 1:30pm.
Oh yes, random searches and metal detectors too! Then the airlines won't be the only business that consistently violates human rights and continues to profit.
Submitted by boopiejones on Tue, 09/14/2010 - 1:43pm.
it certainly seems like i am in the minority here, but i am not sure how random searches when public safety is at risk are such a violation of rights. one can make the arguement that BART isn't a target for terrorists, but i'd disagree. you could fit enough explosives in a small backpack to render the tube useless and bring the bay area to a screetching halt.
i have always had the belief that you aren't going to get busted for something if you are doing nothing wrong. sure there are people that get wrongfully accused and even convicted of things, but how many of those people didn't have a long rap sheet to begin with? it would be nearly impossible for me to be a "person of interest" in a crime, because i don't do shady things or hang around shady people/places.
Submitted by bikesonbart on Thu, 09/16/2010 - 9:17am.
I know you can't be referring to me because a) I'm not a hippie (aging punk maybe) and b) I don't travel with pot. I will assume that you are still missing the point about the loss of your freedom.
Submitted by bikesonbart on Fri, 09/17/2010 - 11:30am.
LOL, by chance are you a wannbe attorney? ;) I mean, you really are reading into things. I don't travel with knives, guns, nunchucks, or an IED either, it doesn't mean I have or don't have them.
Let's use a straw man here. I'm a farmer that works with diesel fuel and ammonium nitrate. The DHS has fancy new fangled testing device that can detect those chemicals and I get singled out. Am I a terrorist? Should I have to justify/defend that trace? Will I get put on some DHS/FBI watch list? I think effing no.
Submitted by bartarded on Fri, 09/17/2010 - 12:26pm.
1.) Am I a terrorist?
No, you have a reason to be working with those chemicals. Though as someone who works with those chemicals you should know better than to travel with them. There are procedures for shipping those items and carrying them on airplanes with luggage is illegal.
2.) Should I have to justify/defend that trace?
Absolutely.
3.) Will I get put on some DHS/FBI watch list?
I sincerely doubt it.
Submitted by BARTNazi on Mon, 10/04/2010 - 1:29pm.
Oh, I just got all paranoid reading this discussion. It occurs to me that BART does almost no screening or searching for explosives or other destructive devices aimed at it. At least, none that I've seen.
Then this occurred to me: Perhaps all would-be terrorists realize that BART is pretty good at crippling itself. Why waste the opportunity (blowing cover, losing operatives, etc.) on something that happens routinely?
Phew, bout of paranoia cured!
Still, a handful of bomb-sniffing dogs patrolling the cars would add a little excitement to our commute each day and remind us to be ever-paranoid.
I mean ... alert.
The biggest threat to BART's
The biggest threat to BART's security is how easy it is to sneak into the system. Maybe after they take care of that they can start frisking people.
I wouldn't mind it if they checked bags at least. It's kind of scary how people are allowed to bring huge suitcases on BART without any checks. It would be extremely easy for someone to wheel a bomb onto BART and blow it up in the middle of the Transbay Tube.
Actually, I'm not as worried
Actually, I'm not as worried about getting blown up as I am the loss of my civil liberties. You know, that unlawful search and seizure stuff, and no, I don't have anything to hide.
Well, you can find some other
Well, you can find some other way to get to work then.
No skin off my back if there is one less bike on BART.
Do you refuse to ride in airplanes too?
I never said I'd refuse. I
I never said I'd refuse. I do use air transportation, but I don't really feel that the TSA is anything more than an obstruction.
The point is that since 9/11, we as a nation seem all to ready to give up our freedom because of the perceived threat of terror. What was that thing that made this country so great and so different from others in the world? Oh yea, The Constitution. To bad things like these PATCO searches and the Patriot Act trample all over it.
Don't worry, you're not getting rid of me and my bike that easily. As a matter of fact, I've been able to get several of my coworkers to use their bikes and BART to commute to work.
Now get out of the door way so people can get on and off the train.
Since this has kind of turned
Since this has kind of turned into a rant about our loss of freedoms since 9/11, I have to add this:
Lawsuit planned after protesters put on terror list
What the hell is going on (in PA again no less)? This is exactly what I'm talking about.
No, I'm not some sort of professional agitator from Berkeley. I'm just a guy from disturbia trying to make a living and support my family while chasing the American dream. :)
Yes! Let's get the racial
Yes! Let's get the racial profiling on! Random my ass. Guess this could be being pulled the airline security line to get the full body, cavity search. Honestly I don't think you can single out "big bags" just because someone is carrying one. A bomb does not necessarily need a big delivery package. A larger security presence would be nice, but I don't think that will happen. Any sort of full screening process would most likely get DHS involved and I don't think we want that in the BART system. Better use of funds would be make it more difficult for patrons to access the system without fare. I know that is a common complaint seen here and voiced by patrons.
Well, it does not have to be
Well, it does not have to be friskings and bag checks? They could install "explosive sniffers" that you have to go through to get into the system. Most explosives of the type used for home-made bombs are easy to detect.
It would be even easier to
It would be even easier to put a bomb into one of the millions of normal-sized purses, briefcases, or backpacks that get carried on trains every day. Why bother with a huge, obvious suitcase?
Home-made bombs typically use
Home-made bombs typically use fuel that is not very compact. Manure, kerosene, things like that.
Making a tiny bomb that makes a big blast is very difficult and requires things like plastic explosives that are very, very hard to get.
Making a big bomb that has a medium-sized blast is simple and can be done easily with chemicals you can buy from the internet.
In Israel, ALL bags, no
In Israel, ALL bags, no matter what size, are checked. At restaurants, theaters, markets. Makes no difference what race. Done for public safety, citizens readily comply. So for our train system this would be a good thing.
One would think that with all
One would think that with all the hate for BART employees here they would be the last people you would want ensuring your safety from terrorists.
BART would not be the one
BART would not be the one doing the screening that would be left up to big government and the DHS and the mall cops, sorry TSA. I would feel none the safer.
I think it's stupid.
I think it's stupid. Searches are a joke, even in airports. Waste of time and money.
I do not disagree. But it
I do not disagree. But it seems to help in Israel.
The thing with taking off shoes in airports is ridiculous though.
Oh yes, random searches and
Oh yes, random searches and metal detectors too! Then the airlines won't be the only business that consistently violates human rights and continues to profit.
it certainly seems like i am
it certainly seems like i am in the minority here, but i am not sure how random searches when public safety is at risk are such a violation of rights. one can make the arguement that BART isn't a target for terrorists, but i'd disagree. you could fit enough explosives in a small backpack to render the tube useless and bring the bay area to a screetching halt.
i have always had the belief that you aren't going to get busted for something if you are doing nothing wrong. sure there are people that get wrongfully accused and even convicted of things, but how many of those people didn't have a long rap sheet to begin with? it would be nearly impossible for me to be a "person of interest" in a crime, because i don't do shady things or hang around shady people/places.
Agree, but we can't have
Agree, but we can't have TSA-stlye screening at BART stations.
I bet a lot of these
I bet a lot of these "Constitutional Rights" hippies don't want to get caught with their bag of pot in their backpack.
I know you can't be referring
I know you can't be referring to me because a) I'm not a hippie (aging punk maybe) and b) I don't travel with pot. I will assume that you are still missing the point about the loss of your freedom.
I wasn't referring to you,
I wasn't referring to you, but I did notice the very careful language of saying that you don't *TRAVEL* with pot.
:-)
LOL, by chance are you a
LOL, by chance are you a wannbe attorney? ;) I mean, you really are reading into things. I don't travel with knives, guns, nunchucks, or an IED either, it doesn't mean I have or don't have them.
Let's use a straw man here. I'm a farmer that works with diesel fuel and ammonium nitrate. The DHS has fancy new fangled testing device that can detect those chemicals and I get singled out. Am I a terrorist? Should I have to justify/defend that trace? Will I get put on some DHS/FBI watch list? I think effing no.
1.) Am I a terrorist? No, you
1.) Am I a terrorist?
No, you have a reason to be working with those chemicals. Though as someone who works with those chemicals you should know better than to travel with them. There are procedures for shipping those items and carrying them on airplanes with luggage is illegal.
2.) Should I have to justify/defend that trace?
Absolutely.
3.) Will I get put on some DHS/FBI watch list?
I sincerely doubt it.
Oh, I just got all paranoid
Oh, I just got all paranoid reading this discussion. It occurs to me that BART does almost no screening or searching for explosives or other destructive devices aimed at it. At least, none that I've seen.
Then this occurred to me: Perhaps all would-be terrorists realize that BART is pretty good at crippling itself. Why waste the opportunity (blowing cover, losing operatives, etc.) on something that happens routinely?
Phew, bout of paranoia cured!
Still, a handful of bomb-sniffing dogs patrolling the cars would add a little excitement to our commute each day and remind us to be ever-paranoid.
I mean ... alert.
I would like to see JoJo out
I would like to see JoJo out and around more often.