Tiny Ticket Ripoff
I buy senior discount tickets, and when BART raised the fares the last time I now have
.30 left on every ticket I can't use. Since the ticket machines will not allow
money to be added to green tickets, I asked the station agent what to do and he
said I would be reimbursed when I bought a new ticket at the in-station transit
store.
I saved up 10 of the .30 tickets and and stood in line to purchase 2 new green
tickets which would normally cost $18.00. The ticket clerk gave me my 2 new tickets
and charged me $15.90. When I informed him that it should have cost $15.00 he
told me the difference was due to the fact that my old tickets had been "pro-rated."
PRO-RATED?? WTF!! I can't believe the cheap bastards that run this third-world
circus would stoop to cheating seniors out of nickles and dimes, but there you have it.
I always wondered why I couldn't upgrade the senior tickets but it's obvious now-
they'd lose an opportunity to steal from old people.
Tiny tickets are a big ripoff. Rot in hell, BART management, rot in hell.
i think you've been scammed.
i think you've been scammed. check out http://www.bart.gov/tickets/sales/refunds.aspx
it specifically states that tiny tickets can be exchanged for larger ones and makes no mention of any king of prorating or fees associated with the transaction...
Wish I knew. This is like a
Wish I knew. This is like a handling charge for having the nerve to ask for an unusable amount of my
money back so I can buy MORE TICKETS!!
I never had this problem before as my fare would always work out to an amount that
required Addfare to get out of the station. I always bought my tickets at Safeway
or Lucky and so far have only used the transit store at Bayfair. Anyone else
experience this??
When you use the addfare
When you use the addfare machine, you get no discount on the amount you're adding. So if you used a $1.50 discount ticket for a $3.00 trip, and put $1.50 in the addfare machine, you've cut your discount in half. You paid $2.06 for a trip that would normally cost you $1.13, a loss of 93 cents. You're better off trading in low value discount tickets instead of using the addfare machine.
It would be nice if the addfare machines recognized the discount tickets and pro-rated the addfare amount. In the above example, you'd add 60 cents (rounded to the nickel).
Even better, if you could use any value ticket in the entrance gate, and let the addfare machine collect the balance. That would eliminate tiny tickets altogether.
If that's true, the little
If that's true, the little dude who runs the Bayfair transit store is a thief. Should I just
report him to the station agent or go get a cop??
I have a similar challenge
I have a similar challenge with my kids' tickets. Like the senior tickets, you pay $9 for a $24 ticket, which is a 62.5% discount.
If you have $3 worth of leftover discount tickets, the actual value is $1.13. They gave you $2.10 for them, so you came out ahead.
The discount used to be slightly better, 70% I think. It sounds like they used the old discount rate, but did it backwards, giving you 70% of the value of the old tickets when they should have given you 37.5% of the value.
but shouldn't those $3 in
but shouldn't those $3 in tickets still equal $3 in new tickets? the OP already paid for them, so they should transfer over dollar for dollar, right?
No, they paid 9 real dollars
No, they paid 9 real dollars for a ticket with 24 "BART dollars" on it. Every BART dollar on that ticket is worth 37.5 cents in real dollars. If they have 3 BART dollars left, it's only worth $1.13.
BART could have done it the other way around by having a discount fare chart for seniors and children. So instead of deducting 1.50 from your green or red ticket, the faregate would deduct .5625 from your ticket. In that case, $3 leftover is 3 real dollars.
not to beat a dead horse (i'm
not to beat a dead horse (i'm really just trying to understand the math) but what about the following scenario:
someone has 100 senior tickets with $0.30 remaining on each.
They should be able to consolidate those into one $30 senior ticket because they technically have $30 worth of tickets in their hand.
using your math, they would only be able to get a senior ticket worth $11.30???
Now I understand that they only paid $11.30 for those $30 in tiny tickets. but the fact remains that do indeed have $30 in senior tiny tickets and should be able to exchange them for one $30 senior ticket...
Yes, and you can do that.
Yes, and you can do that. Gather up $24 worth of little red tickets and trade them for one new $24 red ticket.
In the original case, gather up $3 worth of red tickets and trade them for two $24 red tickets. Net value $45. Discount price should have been $16.88.
The OP paid $15.90, so they came out ahead by 98 cents. The vendor flubbed the math in the OP's favor.
got it, thanks for the
got it, thanks for the clarification.
That is what would happen if
That is what would happen if they actually consolidated the old tickets into a new one. But what it sounds like they do is turn the old tickets into cash (reversing the discount in the process) then apply that to the price of the new ticket you want and charge you the difference. It works out the same.
Anyway, as was pointed out by others, the original poster actually got credited with more cash than that $3 of discounted fare was worth. :-)
Rip off? what do you say
Rip off? what do you say about the regular riders who abuse these tickets? These senior and youth tickets are so cheap, compared to regular fares that 30c left overs or prorated returns should not be an issue.
One cent would be an issue to
One cent would be an issue to me. These pricks don't deserve ANYTHING more than they are entitled to.
Great comment! I was about to
Great comment! I was about to side with the original poster when I realized what a discount he is getting already.
I know this sucks for you Mr. Blazedor but think of how much worse it is for all of us who must pay BART's normal outrageous fees!
I suspect the O.P. is a very
I suspect the O.P. is a very cranky senior citizen I.R.L. also.
He probably tells neighborhood kids to "get off my lawn, punks".
Not really. I just don't
Not really. I just don't like being ripped off.
The prevailing opinion here seems to be that since I'm getting a discount ticket
a little larceny on the part of BART management is perfectly OK and I should
just accept it with a smile and a sigh of relief that it's not worse.
Doesn't seem to work for me.
Last night when I got off the train @ Bayfair I read all the posted information
about discount tickets posted at the transit store. Mention was made regarding refunds
and the amount of timy tickets they would process at a time, but there was NOTHING
about any "pro-rating". If someone could provide a reference, I would appreciate it.
Otherwise, it is still a rip-off.
The only reference needed is
The only reference needed is your 5rd grade math book.
$3 in discount fares x 37.5% = $1.125 in cash. If you could buy your discounted tickets in any amount you wanted then a $3 ticket would cost you $1.13.
$18 for new tickets - $1.125 credit = $16.88, which is what he should have charged you for your new tickets.
I expect you will be going back there at your earliest convenience to give the vendor his 98 cents back?
There's no need to attack a
There's no need to attack a senior citizen for getting a discounted rate. You try living on the paltry amount Social Security gives seniors and disabled people and you'll understand how every penny counts. I'm a young woman with multiple sclerosis and I'm permanently disabled now. I use the red tickets. The discount does help. I would gladly give up my discount if someone found a cure for my disease and I would gladly go back to nursing, too! Respect your elders...he was just asking a question. Don't be a dick!
Yes, he asked a question, and
Yes, he asked a question, and was answered multiple times, yet he still claims to have been "ripped off", despite every reason to believe the opposite, being a Dick is therefore justified.
Amen to that.
Amen to that.
My comment was directed
My comment was directed toward bart_blows. He said, “Great comment! I was about to side with the original poster when I realized what a discount he is getting already. I know this sucks for you Mr. Blazedor but think of how much worse it is for all of us who must pay BART's normal outrageous fees!”
He wasn't trying to answer the question. He just wanted to attack Mr. Blazedor for getting a discount on his BART fare. My comment was justified when I called him a dick.
Why don't we just agree that
Why don't we just agree that everyone in this thread is a dick and move on?
Why agree with something that
Why agree with something that isn't true?
The OP is totally offbase and I imagine it has to do with him being in his twilight years.
10 X .30 = 3.00 When the
10 X .30 = 3.00
When the ticket is bought it was at a 62.5% discount.
So the remaining actual value for a cash refund $1.875
Or credit to a new one.
i had a similar experience a
i had a similar experience a few years ago at Enbarcadero when they changed the discount rate. Normally I hold on to my low value tickets as officially you can only exchange low value discount tickets when you have enough to equal a brand new one and if you use an exit fare machine you pay the real dollar difference with no discount (all these limitations are poorly explained on Bart's website.) So I had a mix of tickets to exchange and went to the transit shop in the Embarcadero station and they promptly tried to extort more money out of me because as they explained the older tickets were not worth the same since they had a different discount applied to them. This was a direct contradiction to Bart's own published policy regarding the older tickets (they retained the same value and would be honored the same as any new ticket.) So I refused the exchange and called BART to complain. They told me they would investigate and they also told me that these transit stores are NOT run by Bart or Muni and are contractors and as such may have slightly different policies. They asked me to send the tickets to BART and they exchanged them without an issue.
Here's a few things I've learned over the years about dealing with the discount tickets:
- You are ALWAYS required to carry some proof of eligibility (RTD Card, ID Card, Medcare Card, Etc.) for the tickets and you can be fined if you can't produce proof of eligibility. Generally however if you are eligible the fine will get dropped but you can't count on it.
- If you use the exit fare machine you have to pay full price for the exit fare. Although in practice most station agents will let you out if you give them the ticket like it isn't working, not sure if this is some sort of secret or something but it has worked for me and many others I know for years.
- If you save your low value tickets you have to have enough to add up to $24 in tickets. It is also my understanding that cash refunds are only given for tickets that add up to $24 as well but as I have never tried to get a cash refund from bart I can't be 100% positive on this.
- The transit stores will only consolidate 10 tickets at a time so if you have more than 10 needed to get an exchangeable amount you are better off sending them to BART.
The Metro in Washington DC has a similar ticket system to BART except their system uses a separate fare schedule for disabled/senior fares (they also have higher fares during rush hour) which is great because you don't get screwed on the exit fare but as far as ticket exchanges and purchasing they are just as much of a hassle as BART unless you have a SMARTrip card (like Translink or EZrider card) which they deployed almost 10 years ago. I was living there at the time they added the smartrip cards and for the first time I could add fare at the station and didn't need to go to the grocery store mile away to get a discount ticket and I was still able to get my discount and everything.
Thank you for your post. The
Thank you for your post. The fact that the transit stores are independent contractors speaks volumes
and explains how and why they run their little extorsion scams. It also explains why there are no
statements from BART regarding such policies--they simply aren't BART policies. I wonder if
the transit contractors get to keep whatever they can steal....
It would be nice if BART would disclose this sort of thing, but I guess that's just too much to ask.
It's common sense and basic
It's common sense and basic math. What is there to disclose?
How many times is someone on
How many times is someone on here going to give you the math before you understand it and stop complaining needlessly?
I don't care about the math.
I don't care about the math. The fact that BART gave someone a full refund when they complained proves the math is irrelevent, it's about the POLICY OF THE INDEPENDENT TRANSIT STORES.
If my complaints annoy you, be assured the only thing less important to me than you are is
your opinion.
The policy of the independent
The policy of the independent transit stores in this case saved you 98 cents. What are you still complaining about?
Again, you saved money in
Again, you saved money in addition to the money you already saved from the ticket itself. Do you want them to unfurl a red carpet because you're a senior citizen?
Shut up.
Shut up.
I request all fellow ragers
I request all fellow ragers to go easy on you, since you seem to be a bit challenged.
This seems so silly. If you
This seems so silly. If you buy a discount ticket, do you really think that you will get cash back for the face value of what is left? I don't think they are in the business of giving away money. Sheesh. You will get the "true" dollar value of what is left on your ticket, which is relative to what you actually paid. Why is that so hard to understand???