Upper Class Wins, Middle Class Loses (again)
Yup and sounds like the management got exactly what it wanted from the employees and the customers. The public and Employees never had a chance. They stuck at a number from day one, and got it.
Now they get to spend spend spend.. Watch for news of hundreds of millions of dollars being awarded to build airport connectors (which they will double the cost to get to OAK Airport similar to what they did to SFO).
You should see hundreds of millions spent going towards SJ from Fremont.
And more hundreds of millions spent on EBart to Antioch.
Think of your "sacrafice" in "these troubled times" as your boss wanting to expand their house or buy a private jet during a bad economy, and they reduce the pay and service to their workers and customers. Spending more millions on PR and Lawyers to manipulate the workers and public that are to naieve to see the truth.
Look for the cheerleaders that went Go Corporate Management, Fire the workers! The WalMart Model works for me.
Who knows how many were managements trolls..
And Don't think the fares won't go up.. If you do, you are a misguided fool.
Bla bla bla.
Bla bla bla.
exactly...
exactly...
if you knew anything about
if you knew anything about finances... you would know that the managers at bart are just upper middle class.
not even close to the ultra-wealthy that make up the upper class
http://extremeinequality.org/
Upper middle, ultra-wealthy..
Upper middle, ultra-wealthy.. Ok whatever.. Upper management makes twice what I do and I make almost double what the Agents and Operators make.. I don't know what technically the classes are, but it would be nice to make double what I make. I guess my idea of wealthy would be way off if you compare it to the folks that pull in more than a Million a year.
"Management makes twice what
"Management makes twice what I make?"
Join the sentiments of almost every hard workingstaff level employee in the working world. It's called "reality". Yeah, it sucks. But at the rate BARt pays it train operators and station agents, they're already getting what most middle "management" are paid in the "real world" for doing less than half the work and having to deal with less than half the messes.
It exists mainly to support the greed and "me first" attitudes of the right wing.
I would say that moving
I would say that moving people from one place to another is FAR more useful work than 99% of the crap that is done by middle managers in the private sector.
“Oh, you hate your job? Why
“Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar.” - Drew Carey
I hope wasteful overtimes
I hope wasteful overtimes shrink to the minimum.
You are obsessed with us
You are obsessed with us aren't you barthater?
You cannot create one post that doesn't include "wasteful work rules" or "wasteful overtime".
Very similar to Linton always finding a way to mention "wasteful work rules" everytime a video camera turns on.
I'm just sayin.....
Are you saying I am wrong?
Are you saying I am wrong?
dont take his bait he is
dont take his bait
he is hateful that the public now sees how easy his job is
Join reality. Every
Join reality. Every business's CEO makes more than the workers. From Walmart to BART. The only difference is that BART workers on average get paid higher than they're worth.
Walmart Cashier = $20,000 a year
Teacher = $40,000 a year
BART Station agent = $60,000 a year.
When you're making 20 thousand more than a teacher with a BA and teaching credentials, I don't think you should be complaining.
What he was pointing out was
What he was pointing out was that it was obviously not about the money for management during the contract negotiation. Money was not the issue seeing that now that negotiations are over, it will begin being spent like flowing water again. (So much for that huge deficit!) It wasn't about the money. Management's goal was to begin the destruction of the union. The money was secondary.
But like he said, so many of you are so blind that you cannot see what's really going on. Instead of standing up to the management fatrats and trying to make things better for yourselves, you'd rather come in here bashing and fighting with blue collar workers that are in the same rat race you are here in the bay area.
And meanwhile, management walks away basically unscathed. Management doesn't give a damn about us or you as a paying passenger. The rapidly deteriorating conditions of the trains and system as a whole, and the constantly rising fares should be proof of that.
But the general public sides with management during negotiations??!!! They knew exactly how to pull the wool over the public's eyes and you all fell headfirst for it. Instead of standing up and fighting against management, the public would rather hate, and fight against those that ARE standing up to, and fighting against management. lol
The unions and its workers
The unions and its workers don't give a damn about the riders too.
Really? Hmm, well
Really? Hmm, well historically the public and the unions were on the same side. The workers always aligned themselves with the workers of the region. I don't get where you get your statement. How many previous contract negotiations have you payed attention to?
Usually people would care,
Usually people would care, but look at our economy. California has a 11% unemployment rate. Jobs are being lost, and BART workers are striking because they don't make enough. That looks selfish in the eyes of the public, especially when the ones who strike have the easiest jobs. Sitting inside a glass box answering questions takes as much skill as ringing someone up in the retail sector.
When did any of the unions
When did any of the unions want a raise? Striking because they don't make enough? Did you watch the news, even the skewed news knew they were not asking for an increase.
Do yourself a favor and google.
ATU gave up more than anyone else at BART. GAVE UP, meaning not just maintaining but went backwards.
They were not striking because they wanted any increase. I think the numbers was something like ATU gave in 30 something percent, while only 20 something percent of BART.
Done repeating myself. Do your own research so you don't look like a fool. Or let people that have a clue argue it out. There is enough wrong with BART to keep this website active without posting the untrue.
It wasn't about the raises,
It wasn't about the raises, but keeping the rules for making overtime money intact. It was keeping these high cost medical coverages intact. in this economy these workers should have been happy to keep their jobs, but no....
Happy to keep job? Other
Happy to keep job? Other industries laying off and some hiring. Has nothing to do with BART.
I think it would have been simple. If BART gets hurt by X employees lose X. If BART does well then they don't lose or even can gain X. Management knows the projection was worse case, they would never go for that sort of fairness.
Overtime rules is what was given in, it was not a big deal to the workers. The Health and retirement was a bigger deal, as it should be. Especially since BART employees don't pay to Social Security, so they won't get any.
If what you say is true,
If what you say is true, Retirement benefits were not being cut. Health benefits were being capped. Getting a Kaiser or a Blueshield for whole family for $85 a month, what do you call that. Why do you feel that BART should provide you a PPO or a very very expensive medical coverage to your workers+family for $85. Get real man.
Workers of all 3 unions
Workers of all 3 unions authorized a strike. ATU under the able leardership of Mr. Hunt, held the riders hostage with their strike threat till the last moment. Even when the management imposed the contract on ATU, they threatened to strike. Did any worker who said No to the deal, think what would happen to the bay-area riders, if BART wasn't running. Nope, that's not their problem. The riders like me, know these workers only care about themselves and to be very very fair, you BART workers are not an exploited lot. Therefore the public does not on your side.
Workers of 1 union authorized
Workers of 1 union authorized strike. The others signed their contracts that were better deals. The others would not go on strike but would not cross the ATU pickets.
Management imposed a contract that was much worse than the others knowing it would cause a strike. Their decision.
Another person that needs to check their facts.
management imposed a contract
management imposed a contract because the atu was being dishonest + because mister hunt was not negotiating in good faith as was promised
it took four months and cost bart over a million dollars and if they had not imposed a contract it just would have kept going forever
Really? another untrue.. BART
Really? another untrue..
BART said get to 100 million ( or something close ) here is "your menu" (a board member actually said that), pick your poison. Oh and I believe management claimed they were at an impass before the strike, and the union wanted to negotiate.
So WHO was not wanting to negotiate?
Who didn't budge and negotiate in good faith?
Who got screwed?
Who imposed the contract that was worse than any offer knowing what it triggers?
Who gave in more between all 3 unions??
Who turned down federal money before contracts and raised fares.
Who is expanding their house in the worst economy?
Who needs to know what they are talking about?
ATU team tried to negotiate, management did not budge.
what is untrue about what i
what is untrue about what i said?
hunt refused to give in on things he knew were neccessary + then refused to give his union members the full text of the contract when he should have + made every indication that he wanted his union members to vote NO on it
he was not bargaining in good faith
expansion in bad times makes sense
contractors do not have enough work so they will work for cheaper
it is just like people buying houses now... sure the economy is bad but... things are cheaper than normal because of it
wow. i actually agree with
wow. i actually agree with you on something. isn't that one of the 7 signs of the apocalypse?
i think hunt is a *unt and i just remodeled my entire downstairs for the exact reasons you pointed out...
I did hear grumblings from
I did hear grumblings from ATU people that they felt manipulated.. They felt Hunt misled them last time to vote for a contract, which is the one that was voted down. They said they did not get the text until vote, and they voted it down against Hunt's wishes. There were some on the board advocating to vote it down. So there was a split in the unions executive board.
You may not like Hunt, I don't know him, but I believe there were lots of people that voted down the previous contract against his wishes. I heard, so probably wrong, that some felt he was giving in to much. I will check on that, but the executive board was not 100% behind Hunts endorsement of the previous contract.
Anyone from ATU here wish to clarify?
If they didn't show the full contract. Or if having ATU vote after the others to try to sway votes for a contract, that would be sleazy.
I don't buy the fact that ATU
I don't buy the fact that ATU gave more. I think eveyone got screwed equally. We (SEIU and AFSCME) just accepted the fact that we were going to be screwed earlier than ATU. Had they realized that we were fighting a lost cause a long time ago, they would have settled when we did.
Except for capping of medical
Except for capping of medical coverage, what did you guys lose? some workrules that were helping some make easy overtime money? Nobody got pay cuts. None of you still work on birthdays. 12 days of sick leave is safe. Bart is still paying your part of the pension contribution. No wages were cut.
ATU workers will have only 4 instead of 15 working on union related work. I would say, why even 4, cut it to 0. Workers are supposed to do their work not union work. if you work for union related jobs, take unpaid leave and ask your union to pay you.
What did you lose?
It is not a matter of winning
It is not a matter of winning or losing. The fact is BART is a cash cow. When they want money they find a surplus. When workers want money they cry broke. I'm not saying that the work rules didn't need to be changed, but in 3 years when the interest rates rise, the economy is booming and the cost of living increases, no one will give a flying f@%* about us. Everyone will be making more money than us while we are stuck at the same pay rate. So what if it will cost more for food, gas, clothing, housing, etc.. We have done our part, so when fares increase and parking increases and service is cut we can no longer be the scapegoats. We settled and gave what they asked for and I still have to justify my job? Kiss my ASS!!!!!!!!
Nobody gives a damn for
Nobody gives a damn for another's job. Its when my life is disrupted,that i start to care. I am paying fares which are amongst the highest in the nation. The workers of that transit are one of the highest paid in the nation. When strike is looming and due to those workers, i start to get pissed off. I might not have been this agitated, if my fares had not increased.
Well you are not paying
Well you are not paying higher fares because of my wages/benefits. They raised fares before we gave concessions. And a strike is solely directed at BART management and the BOD. Is the public inconviencened because of it? Yes, but talk to the people who control the money. Talk to the people who authorize the overtime. Talk to the people who spend millions when they are crying broke. Do you even understand how BART works? They must give the apperance of being broke even when they have money. Why? They won't get any federal funding if they show a surplus. That's why come June of evey year they authorize huge ammounts of overtime to clear thier books. It's a game management and the BOD play and they are very good at it. All I know is if the economy is good in 4 years I better get a raise.
I will be happy for you guys
I will be happy for you guys and root for you guys to get good raises next time. Infact the hardworking workers should get more rather than x% across the board. The management and unions should come up with a proposal/formula to reward the better performing folks.
About clearing the books, you guys should be happy, right? After all, if the management awards you overtime to clear the surplus, the money comes into your pockets.
No one complains about
No one complains about clearing the books. I was just trying to show how they complain about overtime but they have no problem shelling it out when it suits thier interests.
Check the facts. workers of
Check the facts. workers of all 3 unions authorized a strike in July. AFSCME and SEIU had sense to negotiate and agree to a contract, but ATU thought it was a breed of workers who could demand and get anything they wanted. I am happy the management stuck to their guns and the result is there for all to see. If Hunt had any sense, he would not have misled his workers to vote no, the first time.
Back in July yes they voted
Back in July yes they voted to authorize but it never got to call it.
What did the union demand? Their first proposal gave not requested more.
Now I know you are just posting to be posting. I think you have read enough posts and news to know most of your shit is not true.
Its for all here to see,
Its for all here to see, whether I am lying, trolling or having good arguments and facts to back me up. Just because you say my postings are @#$@#$ , does not mean they are. I know you are frustrated that your leaders could not stand up to the management and I am happy for the same reason.
Facts on what? It is true
Facts on what? It is true they voted July to authorize a strike ( all unions) The other 2 unions never had to declare it because they settled. Only ATU would have gone on strike after rejecting their contract that was different than the others , not the other unions.
The other unions would have
The other unions would have been forced to honor your picket lines, and what does that mean?
there is no point making
there is no point making arguments with this poster.
they will not listen to reason.
Umm It means they would not
Umm It means they would not cross the picket line. No union would cross anothers picket line. It does not mean they are on strike. Ask a AC Transit driver if they would cross the BART picket lines. No union would. It is not BART union specific. If a non atu person went to their location and there was no "protection" or line they could goto work if they wanted and not be labled as a scab. I have lots of friends in transit still and drive a bus, ask them if they would have driven past a picket line, I bet they would say no. doesn't mean they are on strike too. Just means there is respect for the line. Call any union member you know.
I believe federal law does not allow a business to disipline a union worker for not crossing a picket line. USA!
To a rider, it does not
To a rider, it does not matter if a particular union is on strike or not. As long they are not working, the bart does not run and riders are screwed. If I had any power, I would ban strikes. I am all for protecting the rights of the workers, but this is bull shit. Trying to milk the system.... and holding the paying riders to ransom. You guys should be fired if you strike.
OP9 and the funny thing is
OP9 and the funny thing is some people are so entrenched in being anti worker that they will never see it. There is no way they would ever admit they are wrong.
In 3 years when the worst case scenario projected deficit doesn't happen, when BART spends close to a Billion dollars not on the current BART system, they will still never admit what the unions were saying was true.
wrong about what? wrong about
wrong about what?
wrong about how station agents are paid too much for what they do?
wrong about how train operators are paid too much for what they do?
most people i know who are and were against the atu support other unions.
this is a special case, of greedy workers
perhaps if the union workers
perhaps if the union workers did not treat the bart patrons like shit... the bart patrons would not be against them? perhaps if they did not act like it was such a chore to do their jobs???
just because people side against what you think does not make them "blind" it means they have a different opinion.
when you threaten to hold the bay area hostage to preserve stupid and wasteful work rules how can you expect people to support you?
If a worker (union or not)
If a worker (union or not) treats you like shit, REPORT THEM! A fool would blame all for the actions of the very few.
There are many hard working men and women with familes that take their job seriously to help people.
report them for what? rolling
report them for what? rolling their eyes? ignoring me to talk on the phone for 5 minutes before answering my question?
it is not against the law to be a jerk
You would not be arresting
You would not be arresting them, why would the law be involved?
Rude employee, against the rules. BART has comment cards or comment on their website.
Give a thumbs up for good people, and thumbs down for rudeness. I believe they even will call you to hear what happend.
not me, i was on your side
not me, i was on your side all the way. i agree, the BART system has been allowed to really degrade and some catastrophe will happen because of it. BART management does not know how to manage money or anything else. i will not be voting for ANY of these people in the next election. i am really bugged BART is downgrading evening service starting next monday. ebart to Antioch is the stupidist thing I've ever heard of and Antioch residents were told BART would be extended to Antioch when they purchased their homes eons ago now. They should have made those greedy developers pay, or at least significantly contribute, for all of the BART extensions.
the whole situation is really depressing along with the jerk who threw up all over himself and everywhere else when my co-worker and I boarded the first car on the last train last Friday night after a double shift. these people do more damage than their fare is worth!
Ok you picked Walmart, the
Ok you picked Walmart, the discounter. Of course they would pay the least and should. Way below poverty level and usually the young or old, don't reqire HS diploma.
You also brought up teachers, how many hours a year do they work? How much time off. And generally accepted they are way underpaid none the less.
Then you list BART workers. you need to find more comparable jobs. You need to find a company which requests overtime. One that requires 15 weeks training that has a high dropout level due to the difficulty of the training.
Compare apples to apples, don't just throw around a retail job or a teacher job and compare it to a transit agency. Retail is the lowest of the low, ghetto folks that wait on me type of jobs. As for teachers, I think they should be paid more and more accountable to make sure they are good teachers.
I am sure you can punch in the 60k into a job search engine and have a fair comparison.
Oh and that BA, BA's are like underwear, lots of people that went to college have it. There are BA's stepping over themselves right now. That almost doesn't mean anything anymore. You can get a BA on the internet.