My thoughts on how ATU voted down the contract!
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God help us all!
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PollWould you all be happy with Configuration C or Configuration B for the new BART Cars?
1. Concept C http://bart.gov/docs/cars/interiorConepage.pdf
83%
2. Concept B http://bart.gov/docs/cars/interiorBonepage.pdf
17%
3. Concept D http://bart.gov/news/articles/2012/news20120112.aspx
0%
Total votes: 6
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My thoughts on how ATU voted down the contract!zzz zzz zzz zzz zzzz xxxx xxxx |
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I second that. I am sad that
I second that. I am sad that it is coming to a strike. I, however, place BART management entirely at fault. Linton is full of it and should be gotten rid of. How dare he use us passengers to promote his b.s. this morning on TV. BART Management should have made the sacrifices this time. Your contract sucked last time as far as raises went. BART management is responsible for the deficit 100% and the people who do the actual work shouldn't be beaten down and made to suffer this way. The price of things are going up, not down. Check out the price of groceries at a Safeway and one wonders how BART Management could even phathom asking you guys to go without a raise for four years.
All the economy crap people are talking about on here doesn't have anything to do with BART. They've had their raises the last four years, BART T.O.'s got hardly anything. I rely on my T.O. and I've met a lot of really nice BART people. There are so many unruly people on those trains, they earn every friggin penny.
BART Management needs to step up this time.
what are you talking
what are you talking about
the economy has been in the toilet for a long time
nobody has gotten raises in a long time
nobody gets pensions ir returement plans and most do not even get full health coverage any more
bart workers have it good - too good
they should not expect to roll in the $$$ and make so much more than the people they drive to work
bart workers make more than most college graduates in the bay area do! and for what? to sit in a booth and not be heloful
the union says they only want what is fair well the offer they got was moer than fair
what the unions want now is MONEY not fairness
"they should not expect to
"they should not expect to roll in the $$$ and make so much more than the people they drive to work"
There is the root of the problem. When the economy was booming, people didn't care about what we made. We were simple, blue collar minions. And as long as we kept trains running, we were basically irrelevant. Now that everyone's employment is on a slippery slope, we make too much and you want our jobs. The irony.
"bart workers make more than most college graduates in the bay area do! and for what? to sit in a booth and not be heloful"
A large majority of BART employees have college degrees, or some type of higher education. A lot of BART employees have, or are pursuing secondary degrees. A college degree doesn't mean you cannot be a blue collar worker. A lot of us graduated from college. Tried the white collar, corporate thing. Found it to be extremely fickle, fake, and unstable. We got on with BART because we saw it to be extremely stable, well paid, flexible, and allowed you to live a good lifestyle. And aside from contract years, it's a great place to work.
Now the economy is in the toilet. People are realizing that security they thought they had really wasn't there, and they're getting pimp slapped by their employers, or put out on the street altogether. Even with the looming strike, our employment is still rock solid once this storm passes. Now all the people that turned their noses up at us want our jobs.
Again. The irony.
why should you be immune to
why should you be immune to the rising cost of health care?
why should you be immune to the failing economy?
your _employer_ is not so you employees get more and more expensive every year. add to that how much you abuse your over time and you are the most expensive transit workers in the whole damn country.
maybe if we were getting the best service and had the best transit system in the country the riders might think it was justified but bart is awful by any standard
maybe if you had to pay your fare share for health care instead of picketing to keep some stupid work rules you would be picketing for health care reform
why should you be paid the most of anyone for poor performance?
why do you expect the public
why do you expect the public to be sympathetic to you workers when you're willing to strike over what seem like trivialities to those of us who are staring down lay-offs and evictions-- especially since a strike makes the average transit rider even more susceptible to wage-loss. And then you make snide, rude posts on this forum about how it's ironic that we're upset? What is the point of you even posting this? Are you trying to be an anti-spokesman for BART employees? If so, you've done a damn good job.
here here! it was not until i
here here!
it was not until i came here that i found how much these bart workers _hate_ the riders that they serve
if you hate the public so much, why work at a job where you must serve them?
you bad attitude drivers should go drive a truck or something and leave the public alone you will not be missed!!
The kind of wages, benefits,
The kind of wages, benefits, vacations, etc that you guys are getting, are on par with whatever others were getting even in boom time. Are you comparing your train operator job to a research scientist? you are all nothing but a bunch of pampered kids and its now payback time.
what are you talking
what are you talking about
the economy has been in the toilet for a long time ...
Two years ... before that things were pretty good. BART workers, except for 2001-2005, have always gotten raises well below the average and well below the Cost of Living.
nobody has gotten raises in a long time ...
Not true again. Look up "average raises" and you'll see that last year was considered "low" where the average raise was "only" 3.8%. That's still more than BART got.
nobody gets pensions ir returement plans ...
Untrue. Everyone in the private sector gets Social Security, half of which is paid for by your employer. BART workers do not get Social Security.
and most do not even get full health coverage any more
... where do you get that from? All my friends get health care from their jobs.
bart workers make more than most college graduates in the bay area do!
... most BART workers *are* college graduates.
the union says they only want what is fair well the offer they got was moer than fair
... that's your opinion, and the opinion of SEIU and AFSCME. Obviously, ATU workers don't feel the same way.
Management is at fault for
Management is at fault for giving away rich benefits. BART is the most expensive transit sytem in the country, that is crazy. But BART employees need to be responsible for a portion of their retirement. If you work in the private sector you are expected to pay into Social Security and save in a 401K. The fact that employees do not pay the employee contribution is mis management of the public's funds. I would go as far to say it is a gift of public funds.
You could give them three percent raises for the next four years, if the employees paid a fair part of their medical 20-30 percent. $82 a month for Family Blue Cross PPO, are you kidding me. This cost does not go up even if health care goes up. They need to share in portion of this increase. I have seen our company move employees to a high ductible plan, for employees that make less than BART employees.
No sympathy here, these employees have got a very nice ride for more than 40 years, and they simply have gone to far in the amount of time off they get, the medical plan they receive, the work rules, the OT for Cinco De Mayo, Night Time differential, and the list goes on.
These employees do not care about the people they serve, the poor customer service, poor management, poor enforcement of the rules. So why should we care about them.
i could not have said it
i could not have said it better
Oh come on. I work for a
Oh come on. I work for a small company, and get 100% of my health insurance paid (single). Other (private sector) companies offer 401k matching. 401k plans are a terrible way to prepare for retirement, and as we've seen lately can be extremely risky.
That said, a race to the bottom is exactly what we don't need.
hear hear! unions are
hear hear!
unions are blue-collar workers' ONLY bulwark against rampant wage deflation which is only widening the yawning chasm between rich and poor in this country. instead of bitching about what people who have negotiated generous contracts in the past deserve or don't deserve, why don't you ORGANIZE and FIGHT for your own work to be valued the way you see it valued?
it's so easy to say that auto workers, bart workers, police, teachers, are overpaid and underworked. but what standards are you using to judge that? all that we seem to value in this country is a college degree, a desk job, dutiful acceptance of whatever crumbs owners and managers throw us. clawing as hard as we can to a job we hate, doing something useless, wasting time refreshing bartrage.com, because we need our health insurance and we need our paycheck.
we need gov't healthcare reform to take over and lower these medical costs that are crippling american companies -- how much have you and your company paid for insurance in your lifetime? how much of that have you ever used? add up the difference, and it's going to be far, far more than the cost of paying for those who are truly sick. and in many cases their coverage is taken away anyway!
that seems like it's off the subject, but i mean it. in this country we seem to think that EVERYONE deserves less, always less. we need to work together and demand MORE. we need to ALL better our lives, not tear each other down. i've described my commute options during this strike. i am one of many who really has no other choice than to use my sick time. it's classic class warfare, and it's making me sick.
lol go back to berkeley
lol go back to berkeley egghead
liberal know-nothing like you are exactly what has put california in the toilet
you have taken the greatest state in the union and turned it in to a national laughing stock that is now bankrupt
Teachers are very very
Teachers are very very underpaid. Bart workers (lazy jobs) are highly overpaid with easy overtime money.
teachers cant strike
teachers cant strike either
neither can fire men or police men
bart unions are too powerful
teachers CAN strike, and they
teachers CAN strike, and they do. See, for instance, http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/14/BAGT9P8QIB1.DTL
Police and fire are prohibited from striking because they are public safety workers, but they usually get nice fat contracts through binding arbitration so usually have nothing to strike about anyways.
If teachers can strike, but
If teachers can strike, but they don't then what does it say about ATU?
then BART should negotiate a
then BART should negotiate a no-strike clause. they have the right to strike, guys.
just because they have the
just because they have the right does not mean they should have it
why let them have a say? they are funded by the government. lets put it up to a vote on the next election ballot. let the public decide how their employers can do
First off, you're wrong for
First off, you're wrong for putting names out there like you did, but what's done is done. Why don't you put your name out there now since you're so quick to put others out there?
Secondly, it's always those mean ol' train operators that mess stuff up right? A number of agents also voted no on the contract, so for you to say TO's threw agents under the bus is sorry. Simple mindedness like that is perpetuating management's divide and conquer tactic. The majority vote on the contract was no, so regardless of how you feel, we need to stand together in this situation.
Now it's ATU VS other BART unions. Train operators VS agents. Management is probably laughing because they have done a great job of pitting us against each other. Evidenced by your post.
Good job. That's exactly what we need right now.
Just goes to show how divided
Just goes to show how divided your union is on this issue. All it takes is one scab and my ass is going back to work. Good luck.
Do what you gotta do.
Do what you gotta do.
Nobody is pitting anybody
Nobody is pitting anybody against anybody. The leaders of all the unions came with an agreement which should have been voted yes.
you atu workers are too
you atu workers are too paranoid
there is no conspiracy from management
just a public that is _fed_up_ with being held hostage every 4 years
we are not your negotiating tools!!
it sounds like what we need
it sounds like what we need right now is to deunionize BART. I'm all for unions serving a function in private, profit-oriented industries, but for public services.. especially ones so vital to the functioning of an entire region.. unions should be disbanded and the public should act as intermediaries for management/labor disputes.
exactly!!! look at who is in
exactly!!!
look at who is in government jobs in unions these days
police, fire fighters, peopole who make far too much for what they do people who retire on 100% pension! plus government funded retirement plans!
this is the kind of stuff that made the american auto makers go under and destroyed detroit
now it is destroying our state from within
it is time to stand up and say no more
this union is to powerful
To retire at 100% income,
To retire at 100% income, someone would had to have worked for BART for 50 years. I don't think we have any 50-year people yet. The formula is 2% per year.
but police and fire fighters
but police and fire fighters do.
try listening to gene burns on kgo sometime.
you will be surprised at what some of these workers get away with.
Not true, I know someone who
Not true, I know someone who retired with over %100 of thier salary. The person had over 30 years.
HOW they voted it down? More
HOW they voted it down? More voters marked "No" than "Yes", now as to WHY, that's a different story.
We all kind of know why it
We all kind of know why it was voted down. Hunt and his comrades did not give the workers the full copy of the contract till the voting time. Many workers voted NO because of that. Why the ATU leaders did this, i have no idea, but they should be asked this question.
agreed this no vote was
agreed
this no vote was orchestrated buy hunt
he lied to management and said he would consider the offer in good faith but then rigged things so that he knew his union would vote no no matter what
if i was in the union i would be calling for hunts head
I am filing a complaint with
I am filing a complaint with the BART chapter and the Local of SEIU 1021 against our leadership because they didn't follow the Bylaws that call for 5 Full days with the Actual contract language before a vote, not just the summary.