WHATS NEXT.. BART vs. ATU
ATU voted down the contract. BART Management says they may have to impose a contract. ATU says if they do, they will walk. The Bay Bridge will be closed for 4 days during Labor Day weekend. BART had planned on running service 24 hours a day for these 4 days.
BART says it takes 16 weeks to train a train operator under”normal” conditions. BART says it takes 16 weeks to train a train operator in”not so normal” conditions. The trainers who train both the Train Operators and the Station Agents are ATU members. The immediate supervisors of Station Agents and Train Operators are ATU members. The AFCSME middle management people know how to run the trains and the stations but per their own contract they may not touch ANY of the equipment….. They can only look.
How will BART Management get themselves out of the tangled web they have woven?
Even if they FIRE all ATU members like some have insisted, it will still take AT LEAST 32 weeks to get at least 1 trainer, 1 Train Operator and Station Agent trained. That’s 16 weeks for the 2 Trainers, another 16 weeks for 1 Train Operator and 1 Station Agent to be trained concurrently.
Can the BAY AREA realy wait that long for a train to start running?
There's no way BART is going
There's no way BART is going to fire everyone. There just isn't enough experienced labor out there to get running again in a reasonable amount of time.
If 900 MUNI and AC TRANSIT workers quit and went to BART, they may just be able to get back up and running in a few months. BART is partially a government organization because of the huge subsidies they get from all over the place. There's no way the feds would let all that money go to waste just because management and the union can't play nice.
Then again Obama seems to like sticking his nose into local affairs instead of solving our international issues, so maybe he can come up with some ridiculous plan to replace everyone...
I agree. Some feel it can be
I agree. Some feel it can be done.
Probably the easiest way to
Probably the easiest way to do this would be to fire all the ATU members, then list those jobs (with the current proposed contract terms plus a no-union pledge), and then allow former ATU members to reapply if they want to. That'd get things back up and running quite fast.
... The AFCSME middle
... The AFCSME middle management people know how to run the trains and the stations but per their own contract they may not touch ANY of the equipment ... True, but if, hypothetically, BART fired all the ATU workers couldn't they simply amend the AFSCME contract to allow them to run the trains?
IF AFSCME opened the contract
IF AFSCME opened the contract again , YES they could ...But I doubt it would go that way. They kill one union...whats to say Yours isn't NEXT down the road?
I wonder if Arnold can impose
I wonder if Arnold can impose the 60-day cooling-off period if just 1 union threatens to strike?
I sure hope he doesn't. It
I sure hope he doesn't. It will only delay the inevitable.
Governor Will Not Grant
Governor Will Not Grant 'Cooling Off' Period to BART, Unions
BEAR TYPE REAL GOOD IN
BEAR TYPE REAL GOOD IN GOOGLE. BEAR GET FISH TREATS NOW.
TREOBART HURT MASTERS, HE
TREOBART HURT MASTERS, HE ALMOST LAUGH ASS OFF.
I can read a
I can read a newspaper...therefore, i can drive a train...
Just how stupid are ATU
Just how stupid are ATU members? Everyone else in the world that still has a job is giving up concessions. The state of the economy is real, but train operators and stations agents seem to be living in some fantasy world. I've had to give up 8 days of pay over the next two years, but I'm not complaining because I know I'm lucky to still be working.
I really can't believe their sense of entitlement. What I read of BART's offer seems fair. No pay raises, but lump sum payments over the next 4 years. That's a hell of a lot more than most folks are getting these days.
They should get their heads out of their asses and be grateful to still be employed.
If they vote to strike, there won't be any public sympathy this time. In fact, it could get really ugly.
Thanks to the Contra Costa times, everyone now knows their names and salaries.
But your ignorance is still
But your ignorance is still blind to the real reasons why BART is in a deficit.
Typical.
What is typical is your
What is typical is your ridiculous sense of entitlement. Every other union in the country is giving up concessions, most of which already have contracts in place. Your refusal to share the pain in totally unrealistic in these economic times, regardless of how BART got into a deficit. Stop trying to assign blame and accept the reality of the situation. Your union's attitude is the reason the U.S auto industry is in the shitter right now. The general public is NOT behind you on this one.
Again. Do you even know why
Again. Do you even know why BART is in such a deficit?
Answer that please.
Why don't you tell me your
Why don't you tell me your version, and what you would have done to prevent it?
You seem to make a lot of generalizations, and ask a lot of questions, but never offer any realistic solutions.
Just like at the bargaining table, I'd imagine.
You're chastising us for the
You're chastising us for the decisions that we've made and you don't even know why those decisions were made. Like I said you're ignorant. Because you've came to conclusions without even getting all the facts.
I've read everything that's
I've read everything that's been published, and watched most of the news reports about the situation, so without being a BART insider, that's about as informed as a member of the public can be. Why don't you enlighten us all to the "facts" of which we are all ignorant? We all anxiously await your words of wisdom.
is ATU ignorance as to what
is ATU ignorance as to what is going on in the world is ridiculous your going on strike when people would give anything just to have a job of any kind any people that lose their jobs because they cant get to work or are late to work is your fault, when you strike your not just on strike for yourselves your jeopardizing over 300,000+ peoples jobs. Bart is not the only one that is in a deficit. All of the cities and counties in California as well as other transportation agencies have been affect Bart is not the only one.
Your ignorance is blind.
Your ignorance is blind. Have they over spended, yes. But in all fairness thier spending was based on two things. 1) Anticipated ridership revenues, 2) Anticipated sales tax revenues. Both of those have gone down the tubes. So cuts need to be made. They are not cutting our benefits or our wages. ATU could have the same thing if they just give up thier outrageous overtime and staffing rules. My understanding is ATU's attorneys kept dragging thier feet during negotiations hoping BART would fold. Guess what? They didn't, and they won't. I have worked for BART for a long time, and when my union leadership tells me this is the worst he has ever seen it, I believe him. You guys need to pick your battles, and during these economic times is not the time to strike, especially when YOU WILL NOT GET ANYTHING OUT OF IT and you are not losing anything. You should be rasing hell at your leadership for not getting the same deal we got. It was there on the table but they walked away from it. You may have just screwed all unions in the process. Striking during these economic times is crazy. Now all government funded unions may loose thier right to strike because of your leaderships stupidity. A strike is only to be used in dire circumstances. Tell me how keeping your benefits and wages is in any way a dire circumstance. I can't believe I have to walk for you. You drive by the shops eveyday in your Mercedes and BMWs and you want sympathy from me? I hope your union is strong, because if ANY of your members scab we will go back to work without a second thought.
The divide and conquer tactic
The divide and conquer tactic at it's finest.
Some call it the truth.
Some call it the truth.
I'll let you tell it. Since
I'll let you tell it.
Since it's logical to spend tons of money in anticipation of something, why don't you go buy a 100,000 dollar car in anticipation of a raise?
You're defending management's anticipation spending, so you doing the same thing shouldn't be a problem now should it?
And when you DON'T get that raise, and can't afford the note, just give the car note to someone else and tell them to work it out.
See how that works out for you.
I'm defending the position of
I'm defending the position of the American economy. Your example is flawed. Most Americans don't pay cash for a home or car. These are both investments in a persons future. As expanding the system is an investment in OUR future. I am not for wasteful spending, but I don't see how expanding the system hurts us at all. Also these are extreeme cricumstances we are dealing with right now. If the economy was stable we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
No is is not flawed man. When
No is is not flawed man. When I brought my home, I brought what I could afford AT THE TIME. I did not buy a bigger house with more upgrades in ANTICIPATION of a pay raise or promotion.
I could have, but I wasn't dumb enough to get over my head in anticipation of something.
Why didn't you pay it in full
Why didn't you pay it in full then. Because you are anticipating you will still have a job and have an expected level of income comming in to your household? If that income were to decrease you will ask everyone in your family to chip in and help out. You would look for ways within your budget to save money (union and management concessions). And eventually you may have to get another job to supplement your income (fare increase). Hmmmm, sounds familiar.
Why didn't I pay for a house
Why didn't I pay for a house in full?
Like I just have hundreds of thousands of dollars in an account somewhere. lol
So you bought a house based
So you bought a house based on an ANTICIPATED income. I like how you only respond to parts of peoples posts you deem important but act oblivious to others.
Negative. I brought a house
Negative. I brought a house based on my CURRENT income and what I could afford RIGHT NOW. I did not base my purchase price on overtime earnings, or future pay raises.
Did you read that part? But I'm oblivious. Right?
Yes you are. You prove that
Yes you are. You prove that with every post. Place any word you want on it (current, anticipated), it is all the same. If your CURRENT income level dropped (which BART's has), the same things I said would still apply.
i think "anticpiated income"
i think "anticpiated income" and "anticipating that i won't get laid off" are two different things. "anticipated income" implies that someone thinks they will be getting huge raises in the future, or that they will continue to make a shitload of commission after they had one or two good months of selling their widgets. very few people can straight up afford to plunk down the money needed to buy a home outright. i don't think that the mere presence of a mortgage means that someone is irresponsible with their money.
And for the record, I would
And for the record, I would NOT ask my family to chip in and help me out in that situation. They didn't create the mess by spending irresponsibly, so I would not ask them to help clean up my mess.
It's called accountability.
You would be the only person
You would be the only person in America then. Because you would continue to give them everything they have become accustomed to. Even though you couldn't afford it.
Negative ghostrider. I'm a
Negative ghostrider.
I'm a single man with no kids.
Again. I did what I knew I, and I repeat I could handle financially.
But you didn't receive any
But you didn't receive any Federal Transportation funds to assist with your mortgage, did you? Your analogy is as flawed as the rest of your arguments.
No it's not. That's why in
No it's not. That's why in these dim economic times, I comfortably float my mortgage because I didn't take out a more expensive loan in ANTICIPATION of windfalls.
Go somewhere.
This not divide and conquer.
This not divide and conquer. This is a case of using one's own mind and figuring out what is correct. Blindly supporting other unions and workers, leads to problems like this. A lazy station agent makes more money than a hard working mechanic or an electrician. A lazy train operator takes a 10 min break after every 6 minute rides.
There's not a 6 minute run in
There's not a 6 minute run in the system right now, so stop lying.
No lying here. SFO Airport to
No lying here. SFO Airport to Milbrae takes 6 mins, if there is no equipment problem.
But again. There is NO
But again. There is NO shuttle from Millbrae to the airport right now. That run doesn't exist and hasn't existed for about 4 years.
So yes, you're lying.
BART cancelled this service
BART cancelled this service because of this rule. It just wasn't viable. Once ATU agrees to remove this wasteful work rule, the management will bring it back.
Negative. they cancelled it
Negative. they cancelled it because it was a complete crapshoot to get good routing from Millbrae to the airport.
The interlockings went down more than they were functional.
We just now were able to iron out glitches out there to run trains from San Bruno to Millbrae
The antagonistic comments by
The antagonistic comments by train operators on this site could not show more concisely why they voted against a reasonable and fair contract.
I'm still waiting to hear about the "facts" of which I'm so blindly ignorant.
I second your thoughts. I
I second your thoughts. I think ATU is behaving irresponsibly. This needs to be stopped and Bart management have taken the right stance.
Well said. I'm still
Well said. I'm still persuing my dream to be a Train Operator. See you guys on the rails.
I could use a few extra bucks
I could use a few extra bucks over the next few weeks... would make for some nice Christmas money. You need replacement workers ? Sign me up... You can get high school kids to man a ticket booth. I'd do it PT after my real job for between $12-14 dollars. Don't need bennies- and I kick the crap out of a goon mad cause I'm doing it. Take the contract offer and be happy- at the very least for now.
sounds great! i would love to
sounds great!
i would love to take a night shift as a station agent. easy work for great money.
i already know basic cpr and how to give directions for bart. would not take more than a day to learn how to fix a ticket that is demagnetized or whhat ever.
Dear ATU members: Please help
Dear ATU members:
Please help us understand. We complain that these are hard economic times. That we ALL are taking pay cuts and making concessions to get by. Yes, in some cases, our employers didn't properly plan for such a downturn. And yes, BART management is notorious for sinking ridiculous amounts of money into stupid programs/initiatives, etc.
But... why? Why now? When it would serve more to punish the public than the BART management. For some of us, our livelihoods are at stake. Are your livelihoods at stake?
Signed,
- eastbaycitizen
I'd also like to see a
I'd also like to see a response to this. We probably never will since the ATU probably doesn't want to admit that they're ruining lives.
We announced a strike because
We announced a strike because a contract was imposed on us. Management was advised and knew the result of that action beforehand, and still did it.
We do not want to strike. However, no attempted imposition, no strike announcement.
So maybe your question needs to be directed at management?