Are electric-powered scooters permitted on BART?
Hi, this is something I've been unclear about for a while. I've checked the Bikes on BART rules and they only say that GAS-powered vehicles are not permitted. Are electric-powered scooters/bicycles permitted on BART. I also checked the safety guidelines and it only says that RIDING the items aren't allowed on BART. I'm hoping Shrapnel, Jo Jo, or any other BART employee can give me a straight answer. Thanks!
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Yes they are allowed.
Yes they are allowed.
Actually, it depends on the
Actually, it depends on the scooter. Currently BART will not allow Segway scooters onto BART. Has something to do with one of them falling onto the trackway.
UTBF
Alright, great. I don't use
Alright, great. I don't use Segways anyway. I'm not into them. Thanks!
There's a gentleman
There's a gentleman [supposedly] with a leg or ankle problem who rides almost daily and he has a Segway that was provided to him by the state. He is also a habitual fare evader in the elevator at Colosseum...
Electric-powered scooters, that's a tough one, and I'd say it depends on the type. Do you have a picture/specs on the one you are thinking about?
I attached a photo to this
I attached a photo to this thread. It had pedals that can be removed and is classified as an electric bicycle by the California DMV.
how much does that thing
how much does that thing weigh? can you put it on your shoulder and walk up the stairs? regardless of how it is classified by the DMV, i'm guessing you would get fined or at least get a lot of shit for trying to take that on bart. when you mentioned electric scooters before posting the picture, i thought you were talking about an electric razor scooter, not an electric honda goldwing.
BART rules say I have to use
BART rules say I have to use the elevator regardless. And the manufacturer said about 115 pounds.
Bikes on BART Rules:
Bikes are allowed on all trains except those trains shown in highlighted areas of the BART Fares and Schedules brochure. It is the rider's responsibility to refer to BART schedules.
Regardless of any other rule, bikes are never allowed on crowded cars. Use your good judgment and only board cars that can comfortably accommodate you and your bicycle. Hold your bike while on the trains.
Bikes are allowed in any car but the first car of a train.
Bicyclists must use elevator or stairs, not escalators, and always walk bikes.
Bicyclists must yield priority seating to seniors and people with disabilities, yield to other passengers, and not block aisles or doors or soil seats.
In case of an evacuation, leave your bike on the train and do not let it block aisles or doors.
Bicyclists under 14 years old must be accompanied by an adult.
Gas powered vehicles are never permitted.
Bikes must be parked in racks and lockers. Call (510) 464-7133 for locker availability. Bikes parked against poles, fences or railings will be removed.
COMMUTE HOURS
(Weekdays approximately 7:05 to 8:50 am and 4:25 to 6:45 pm.)
During morning commute hours, bikes are allowed in the Embarcadero Station only for trips to the East Bay (as indicated by the Fares and Schedules brochure).
During evening commute hours, bicyclists traveling from the East Bay must exit at the Embarcadero Station (as indicated by the Fares and Schedules brochure).
During morning and evening commute hours bikes are not allowed in the 12th and 19th Street Oakland Stations (as indicated by the Fares and Schedules brochure).
Folded bikes are allowed on the trains at all times. During commute hours, folding bikes must be folded before entering the paid area at the Embarcadero, Montgomery, Powell, and Civic Center San Francisco Stations, and the 12th and 19th Street Oakland Stations. At all other stations, they may be folded on the platform, but must be folded before boarding a train.
Violation of the above rules subject to citation under CA Vehicle Code Sec. 21113 and Sec. 42001.
Nowhere does it say, electric bicyles are not permitted.
Bike rules from the BART safety guide:
Bikes are never allowed on crowded cars. Bicyclists must do the following:
use elevators or stairs - not escalators,
walk bikes,
yield priority seating to seniors and people with disabilities,
yield to other passengers,
hold bikes while on trains and not block aisles or doors.
In the case of evacuation, leave your bike on the train and do not let it block aisles or doors.
Gas powered vehicles are never permitted.
Customers with 2-wheel motorized/electric scooters can only use elevators - not stairs or escalators.
Again, nowhere does it say that electric bicycles are not permitted.
I bet you there is no way he
I bet you there is no way he could take it on my usual afternoon train home. There is a train operator I affectionately call "The Bike Nazi" who reminds folks at every stop that no bikes are allowed during commute hours. Every once in awhile, some jackass tries to bring a bike on anyway. "The Bike Nazi" will blow a gasket and make repeated announcements for him to get off the train, even opening the doors a second time to make sure they exit. He was extremely adamant yesterday afternoon at MacArthur Station, everybody in my car was chuckling and looking out the window to see the moron with the bike.
Bikes are for getting -TO- BART at rush hour, not for taking -ON- BART at rush hour.
That won't be a problem with
That won't be a problem with me. I usually ride during off-peak hours. The Bike Nazi. Ever since that episode of Seinfeld aired, that's been a staple of uptight people. The ______ Nazi. I even knew someone who we used to call "The Fun Nazi."
DMV has two categories of
DMV has two categories of motorized bicycles based on its capabilities.
One requires a Drivers License with an M-1 or M-2 endorsement and an approved DOT motorcycle helmet.
The other does not require a Drivers License and you must wear a bike helmet.
From the looks of your photo, I would guess that you fall into the first category.
(It would help if you posted the specs.)
If you need a Drivers License to operate it, calling it a bicycle is just a play on words. It is not just a bicycle, it is a motorized bicycle.
Bottom line is, if a BART Employee thinks that it's a safety issue, they can tell you to keep it off of BART.
I checked. No licence
I checked. No licence required. It's fully classified as an electric bicycle. It' has removeable pedals so I believe that's what classifies it as an electric bike.
MANUFACTURER SPECS:
Power: Electric
Watts: 500 Watt
Motor Type : Brushless Hub Motor - Motor is in center of rear wheel
Maximum Riders : Can ride 2 people at once
Amps: 40 Amp Circuit
Volts: 48 Volts
Batteries: 4 - 12 volts Maintenance Free (Four batteries total) (48 Volts)
Tire Size: 16x2.5 on 16" Inch Aluminum Wheels
Charger: Smart Charger Included
Tool Kit: Included
Speed: 20+ mph* using motor power only - faster if you also pedal
Distance: Up to 20 - 25 miles per charge - can still pedal if charge is lost
Throttle Type: Variable speed control - Twist throttle on right grip
Key Start: Yes
Seat Kit Included: Yes
Storage Areas : Large area below seat + Large trunk + Small area near key
Braking System: Front and Rear brakes
Drive System: Chain
Foldable: Partially - Remove front wheel for transport
Head Light: Yes
Tail Light: Yes
Brake Light: Yes
Blinkers: Yes
Suggested Max Weight: 300 lbs
Carton Size (LxWxH): 59"x15"x38"
Scooter In Box Weight: 115 Lbs
Scooter Weight: 100 Lbs
Electric Horn: Yes
Spring Loaded Seat: Yes
Speedometer: Yes
Battery Indicator: Yes
Cargo Rack: Included
And furthermore, the federal law on electric bicycles goes as follows:
Federal law says that an electrically driven bicycle is considered a “bicycle” and the laws of bicycles apply if:
- Electrically driven bicycle has less than 750 watt motor
- Functional Pedals
- Max Speed is less than 20 MPH
- The Federal Law shall supersede any State law or requirement with respect to low speed electric bicycles (The state must regulate the electric bicycle as a bicycle)
Official law:
"SECTION 1. CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY ACT
The Consumer Product Safety Act (15 U.S.C. 2051 et seq) is amended by added at the end of the following:
LOW-SPEED ELECTRIC BICYCLES
SEC. 38. (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, low-speed electric bicycles are consumer products withing the meaning of sextion 3(a)(1) and shall be subject to the Commision regulations published at section 1500.18(a)(12) and part of 1512 of title 16, Code of Federal Regulations.
(b) For the purpose of this section, the term 'low-speed electric bicycle' means a two or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less tha 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 MPH.
(c) To further protect the safety of consumers who ride low-speed electric bicycles, the Commision may promulgate new or amended requirements applicable to such vehicles as necessary and appropriate.
(d) This section shall supercede any State law or requirement with respect to low-speed electric bicycles to the extent that such State law or requirement is more stringent than the federal law or requirements referred to in subsection (a)."
So, that makes this vehicle officially an electric bicycle.
From CHP website: What is a
From CHP website:
What is a moped or motorized bicycle?
• There are two types of motorized bicycles, defined in the California Vehicle Code (VC) Sections 406(a) and 406(b).
• Section 406(a) VC refers to a moped or motorized bicycle as any two or three wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, has an automatic transmission, and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horespower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.
• Section 406(b) VC refers to a motorized bicycle as a device that has fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that:
o Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts;
o Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour on level ground; and
o Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when human power is used to propel the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.
Driver's License Requirements:
Motorized scooter
Effective 1/1/2005, a Class C driver license or driver permit is required.
Motorcycle, motor-driven cycle, motorized bicycle/moped (Section 406(a) VC)
• Must obtain an M-1 or M-2 endorsement on a driver's license.
• M-1 allows the driver to operate a motorcycle, motor-driven cycle and moped
• M-2 allows for operation of a moped or motorized bicycle only.
• To obtain an M-1 or M-2 endorsement, the driver must:
o Pass the appropriate written exam
o Pass riding skills test (DMV will accept certificate of competence from an approved novice motorcyclist training program instead of skills test, such as the California Motorcyclist Safety Program).
o If the individual is under 21 years of age, mandatory successful completion of a Basic Rider education course approved by the CHP is required, such as the Basic Rider course available through the California Motorcyclist Safety Program.
Motorized Bicycle (Section 406(b) VC)
• Driver's License not required but rider must be at least 16 years of age.
• Helmet requirement:
• Motorcycles, Motor-Driven Cycles, Motorized Bicycles/Mopeds (Section 406(a) VC ) - A helmet meeting Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 218, self-certified by the manufacturer and displaying a 'DOT' emblem must be worn by all riders of motocycles, motor-driven cycles, and motorized bicycles/mopends.
Motorized Scooters - A bicycle helmet meeting the standards of either the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) or the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) must be worn to operate a motorized scooter.
Motorized Bicycles (Section 406(b) VC) - A bicycle helmet meeting the standards of either the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) or the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission (SPSC) must be worn to operator a motorized bicycle.
Since your specs. state that the vehicle has a top speed of 20+ MPH and faster if assisted with pedals, it appears that according to California Law, it falls under section 406(a) of the vehicle code and you need a license. Go ahead and bring it on BART if you want, but don’t be surprised if you get thrown off a train far from home and have no way but your “electric bike” to get home. If it was me, I wouldn’t chance it. California Cops don't enforce the Federal CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY ACT. They do enforce the California Vehicle Code.
I agree the rules don't say
I agree the rules don't say anything prohibiting that scooter. They don't say anything about Segways either, but hasn't BART banned those? I guess the only way to find out is test the system and attempt to bring it on. I would have a copy of the printed rules with you and the appropriate sections highlighted to help you justify your case. I wouldn't try to board any train that was marginally full.
I say go for it and report back here. Inquiring minds want to know.
i'll buy a drink for mikokat
i'll buy a drink for mikokat at the next bartrage cotillion if he/she survives one week of commuting with that behemoth without a ticket or at least a "don't ever bring that thing on bart again" slap on the wrist.
I can't drink. I'm 16. And,
I can't drink. I'm 16. And, for future reference, I'm a guy. I'll probably only bring it on BART once or twice a week. That's about the frequency I ride. By the way, the device isn't as big as it looks. It's about the size of a regular bicycle.
Well then mr mikokat, I'll
Well then mr mikokat, I'll buy you a soda pop. To date, 100% of the bartrage functions have been at bar and grill type places. That is purely by design, so you and robbiet can join in the festivities. And so I can get french fries.
I dunno if I'd call the Irish
I dunno if I'd call the Irish bank a bar and grill but I guess they had food there. Are you holding out on me boopie? LOL
In today's
In today's Chronicle
Incidents prompt BART to consider Segway rules
Michael Cabanatuan, Chronicle Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 13, 2008
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/13/BAV8129P2H.DTL
my Question: why he was riding it in the BART Station, shouldn't he walk the unit like it is required with bicycles.
Something like this one might
Something like this one might be more likely to pass muster. I doubt the one you show would be OK. Even if it was technically allowed by the rules, I can see you having to argue with both the Station Agents and Train Operators every time you tried.
Which is why I'll carry
Which is why I'll carry official documents permitting it onboard. I'm usually not in any hurry. I'd carry the Bikes on BART rules and the official DMV certification.
In today's Chronicle BART
In today's Chronicle
BART directors OK Segways on off-peak trains
Michael Cabanatuan, Chronicle Staff Writer
Friday, August 15, 2008
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/15/BAPV12BCI9.DTL
Segways and similar self-balancing, self-propelled transportation devices won't be banned from BART trains, the transit agency's Board of Directors decided Thursday.
...
I think what I'll do is I'll
I think what I'll do is I'll ride to Fruitvale BART and leave it at the Bike Station or a Bike Locker. Does anyone know how safe a bike locker is? Because the bike station is (stupidly) closed on weekends.
Well, this issue has seemed
Well, this issue has seemed to be resolved. I've applied for a permit and am waiting on a response from BART. That'll seem to clear things up. Thanks to everyone who contributed!
Keep us posted. I stand ready
Keep us posted. I stand ready to buy you a soda at the next bartrage mixer if you get that permit.
Boopie - you are awake
Boopie - you are awake already? I'd like to see if he can get a permit as well. I see bikes on bart and handicap scooters(3 wheel), but never an actual two wheeled scooter on bart. Speaking of mixers - how about we have another one towards the end of this month? Same place - same bat channel?
I'm up for that.
I'm up for that.
& I'll try to get permission
& I'll try to get permission from mommy to say out late this time...
If you mean something like a
If you mean something like a handicap scooter, then I think those are classified as a wheelchair and don't require permits because of the ADA Act of 1990.
i'd be up for another one.
i'd be up for another one. lets figure out a date that works for most. i'll check my calendar tomorrow.
I'll be sure to do that!
I'll be sure to do that!
Alright, everyone, the permit
Alright, everyone, the permit came in today! I'm now permitted to bring what BART calls an "Electric Powered Assited Mobility Device" (EPAMD) onto the trains during the permitted Bicycle Hours.
I'll be hitting you up for that Coke, Boopie, lol.
make sure you drive your
make sure you drive your electric honda goldwing to the next bartrage mixer so i know who you are. otherwise, there will probably be about 50 people asking for free drinks claiming to be mikokat.
Can't say I'll be able to do
Can't say I'll be able to do that, but I'll carry the permit for my scooter on me.