Where's the urgency?
(I have been reading this site for the last several months, but haven't had a reason to post until now. I should say that--all appearances to the contrary--I'm generally a really big fan of the BART system.)
Since the fire at South Hayward yard 2 weeks ago, there seems to be a distinct lack of urgency about getting it fixed.
It really comes across as BART just not giving a damn about whether it gets fixed and, if so, when it happens.
To start, the ONLY statement BART has released about it is the completely BS-laden press release on their website (http://www.bart.gov/news/press/news20080511.asp). Several things are COMPLETELY wrong in this press release, namely:
- Having trains that are SRO from the instant they leave Fremont is not a "minor" service adjustment/disruption.
- The slow running between Union City and South Haward coupled with the 10 minute wait for a richmond train (northbound) or a Fremont train (southbound) adds at least 20 minutes to my commute, not the 10 minutes claimed in the article. Again, this goes well beyond the "minor service adjustment" category.
- BART crews are NOT "working around the clock to repair the damage"--I ride past there twice a day every day, and it's unusual to see anyone out and working on anything. Even when there is someone around, it's one person sitting at a table under the tent near the burnt-out transformer, not doing much of anything.
Second, if BART is going to run half as many trains to Fremont, wouldn't it make sense to run 10-car trains on EVERY run, ESPECIALLY at rush hour? The past two mornings I've left Fremont at the absolute height of rush hour (7:45am yesterday, 7:30am today) and been stuck standing on an 8-car train. This makes absolutely no sense.
Third, I understand that a transformer burned out, but what's so hard about putting another one on a truck, plopping it into place, and plugging it in? It's not like it's a high-tech (or particularly uncommon, or hard-to-find) piece of equipment.
Fourth, when the I-580 bridge went out because of a fire, there was all sorts of coverage in the popular press, updates about when it would be fixed, interest from politicians, etc. With this (which is also inconveniencing tens of thousands of people every day) there's nothing.
So, I've just got to ask, where's the urgency? Why is BART being allowed to get away with this "we'll fix it sometime, maybe, when we have a spare moment, and if it doesn't take too much effort or money" attitude?
BART RAGE, indeed....
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"I understand that a
"I understand that a transformer burned out, but what's so hard about putting another one on a truck, plopping it into place, and plugging it in? It's not like it's a high-tech (or particularly uncommon, or hard-to-find) piece of equipment."
---
It's my understanding that transformers of this type are not off-the-shelf items. Transformers about the size of a full-sized vehicle being transported on flat bed trucks down the highway are custom made. They are built to last a long time. These transformers, if they have not been replaced, may be 40+ years old. These are not the typical transformers found on power poles. BART's transformers are taking 34k AC to 1000vDC. It's also my understanding that the train control equipment was being upgraded with more advanced digital components, so if the reports are true that the entire room was fried, it's not necessarily as easy as ordering up servers from Cisco or IBM to replace same.
I'm optimistic that repair and replacement is on a fast-track schedule. BART still needs to prepare specs representing contemporary industry codes, put out a fast RFP, go through the bid process and then sign a contract with the various companies that handle such repairs. There's a process, unless someone decides to go with a no-bid process and spend a bundle of bucks. Let's not get Halliburton or KBR involved in this.... HTH
Cisco makes servers?
Cisco makes servers?
" unless someone decides to
" unless someone decides to go with a no-bid process and spend a bundle of bucks"
Exactly--at this level of disruption, that's PRECISELY what BART should be doing--they should be going to the CC Meyers (the company that fixed the 580 bridge) equivalent for train control systems and saying "get it fixed now, we'll talk about money later."
And yes, I do understand that it's a pretty big transformer, but I'm also sure that it's not the only one of its type that exists, or that GE (or whoever) couldn't find one someplace that would at least allow the trains to run properly, even if it didn't light up the whole South Hayward yard for normal operations.
And even if it does have to go through some lengthy RFP, etc. the LEAST BART management could be doing was posting updates on the status of the repairs, the RFP development and responses, etc. on the website several times a day.
Or here's another idea--since they're delivering such a horrible level of service to the stations south of Bayfair, how about softening the blow by reducing or eliminating fares from those stations until it's fixed. I don't understand the mentality that we, BART's customers, should be expected to pay exactly the same amount for hugely worse service, after a screw-up that was entirely BART's fault.
Maybe I've been lucky, but this is really my first incident with BART that's left a majorly sour taste in my mouth. (I've been an occasional rider for the 15 years I've been in the Bay Area and a daily rider for the past 5 or so years.)
Grumble.
Although the disruption to
Although the disruption to the Fremont line has little effect on my daily commute, it sounds like typical BART; lots of excuses, few answers and "we'll damn well do what we want". Anyone working for any government institution (BART included) rarely gives a rat's ass about public opinion. I feel that BART's management has this "we are elected officials and are paid to make these decisions" type of attitude. That would be great if it were a world class system with few kinks, but it's BART (Bad Ass Riding Transit).
i have a client that
i have a client that manufactures transformers. most transformers in the US were installed in the 1960s and are nearing the end of their life cycle right now. because of this, the few companies that make transformers are in very high demand. my client in particular has orders right now that will keep them busy for about a year and a half. in order to get a transformer quickly, the client either needs to be a very good client (orders a buttload of transformers on a regular basis) or they need to shell out a lot of extra cash. these transformers typically run about $1 to $2 million a piece. if bart needs one now, my guess is that it will probably run them $2 to 3 million.
transformers are pretty low tech. basically a giant tub of oil with a coil inside, but they are enormous (probably the size of the average children's bedroom. while the basic design is the same from transformer to transformer, they definitely are custom made for each client's specifications and you need a very specialized factory to produce and test them. my client has a machine that they test each transformer with that literally produces a full-blown lightening bolt to test the transformers ability to withstand such a blow.
It's funny to see posts like
It's funny to see posts like these. I know you're frustrated with the turn of events. We all are.
But it's obvious you really don't have an understanding of what happened and the magnitude of it. Hayward is BART's largest yard. It stores the most trains. It's vital in day to day operations. The system has been an absolute clusterf*ck since the yard went down. What happened was a damn near catastrophic event. This is costing and will cost BART SO much money after all is said and done, you'd probably throw up if you knew the figures.
For you, or anyone to think that BART isn't doing all they can or isn't interested in fixing this as quickly as possible is one of the most ignorant things I've read in here in a while.
But if that's what you wanna think, continue on.
I think the main part of the
I think the main part of the frustration is that the public has no idea what is going on. We don't get status reports or updates, we know the magnitude is big, but how big? When I ride through the area every day, I see blackened pieces of equipment, and a control tower that looks out of order. The only update I get as a civilian BART rider is what I see when I look out the window of my train as it follows it's stately journey through the Hayward switching yard.
During the first couple days after the fire, I saw what looked like a fairly sizable number of engineers inspecting the burnt out transformer. Also at the time, I remember seeing very nervous looking BART engineers in the elevators at work carrying schematics--BART is the main tenant in the office building in which I work. BART seemed to be on it's toes trying to get everything fixed quickly.
However, now, when I pass the Hayward yard, I don't see anyone around the transformer in question. Logically, I think the lack of people must be because the first few days were an investigation phase where BART was determining the damage to the system, and now we are in a phase where not a lot of work on the site is being done, but elsewhere a lot of work is being done.... But, emotionally, I look out the window of my turtle-speed BART train, on my way to Fremont--and dinner--and I think "They're not doing anything.... Bastards...."
IMHO, a little more communication from BART to us civilian types would go a long way to making everyone feel a little better.
Exactly--we have no way of
Exactly--we have no way of knowing the magnitude of the problem or what work is ongoing to fix it because BART's not saying ANYTHING about it.
Also, trying to spin the horrible level of service on this part of the line as "minor service adjustments" is so patently false that it just adds insult to injury.
Maybe what I said was ignorant, but as there's NO source of information (here, on the BART website, or anywhere else), I have no alternative but to use logic.
So, could someone please explain to me why it's not possible to use some spare transformer flown in from someplace, a bunch of cable, and some ingenuity to MacGyver a solution to at least get the trains running properly while the repairs to the yard are being done?
Also, I frankly don't give a damn how much it'll cost to fix it--when a critical piece of infrastructure goes down, we should be worrying about how to get it fixed as soon as humanly possible, not nickel-and-diming things to try to get the best price.
A few other things that BART could be doing to start trying to resolve this mess:
Icrew's bulleted list of
Icrew's bulleted list of suggestions seems perfectly reasonable to me. Daily status reports may incur too much overhead, but weekly status reports, and perhaps a list of milestones, both complete and incomplete, would give people a sense of progress.
My roommate pointed out that
My roommate pointed out that a section of I-5 is going to be closed in Sacramento, and pointed me to this really great website about the project. And, I think, why can't BART have something like this. I thought we were supposed to be oh so more sophisticated then Sacramento around here....
Exactly what really happened?
Exactly what really happened? I heard that there was work being done ( upgrade?) and it go boom!
I had been riding to and from
I had been riding to and from Hayward to Berkeley everyday since November, new to a regular BART commute. It really was efficient and mostly reliable until this. Now I dread everyday. It's random and confusing. But I can give a little insight to whats going on:
It wasn't just a transformer, it was all of Hayward Tower, a linchpin of the BART system that burnt. All the computer equipment and wiring has to be replaced. Hayward was where most cars went for repairs and service as well as storage and that is why this is such a pain to get repaired.
The word is that it will be more expensive than the tunnel fire to repair- in the millions. BART has a million dollar deductible that will need to be paid before it's insurance will kick in, but don't excpect them not to complain about the strain that this will put on their budget- and they may use it as a tactic in other affairs.
Unfortunately, the Richmond-Fremont line always gets the shit end of the BART stick. It isn't serving the rich or influential riders, it's serving working class passengers who may not have other options. The communities are ones that BART is chasing, no deals to build A-bart-ments on high value land. The Fremont Richmond line always has smaller trains and is lower on the priority list for repairs. I'm sure this is a high priority to get fixed but it doesn't have the extra weight of being on the Dublin line where the people they really care about are. This may also be why they feel we don't need any helpful info or longer trains. We aren't the right passenger demographic.
Here we are facing $4 per gallons at the pump and BART doesn't have the curtesy to update schedules or web pages for us. There isn't even a mention on the platform signs...the ones that continue to warn about a 2 minute change in Dublin Pleasanton service.
I agree with the several
I agree with the several posts that BART should keep commuters updated - instead of putting a spin to the story, just lay out the facts as to the magnitude, what needs to be done and at what stage the repair work is at. BART should take a couple of chapters from CalTrans on how they handled the Labor Day bridge closure, the 580/880 structure collapse and the most current I-5/Sacto closures. Local radio stations even covered the I-5 closure information this afternoon.
Linton, instead of tauting the library kiosk on the Concord line, stick someone in operations or engineering in front of the camera and tell us what happened and what's being done to fix it. The commuters opting to ride BART instead of paying $4.00/gal deserve an explanation - the consequences of losing new commute riders will not help BART.
What BART needs is this: At
What BART needs is this:
At both ends of the transbay tube, put two diesel/natural gas alternators. Four total, one for each half of the two transbay tracks. The prime movers and the alternators (plus the transformers needed to convert the 12.5 kv to 34.5 kv) would be fixed. On trailers, mount the 34.5k to 1000v converters.
This would serve as a backup power supply for power failures in San Francisco. It would allow BART to shuttle people from Embarcadero or Montgomery, to West Oakland (and the normally powered East Bay).
The mobile DC converters could also serve as a backup for situations like the Hayward fire. You wouldn't have to move the gensets, there's already 34.5 kv wherever there's a DC substation. Ideally each genset/converter should be 10 megawatts, but 4 Mw generators would probably pencil out as sufficient (shorter trains, half acceleration, etc.) 10 Mw dc converters would still be desirable, and probably portable.
This IS classic BART. If
This IS classic BART. If repairs are ongoing 24/7 where is the PR? If not, why not? The issues around not bothering to give timely updates and incorrect destination display contrast vividly with elevator updates--course that took a class action lawsuit. And as to train lengths, every train short turning at Bayfair should mean EXTRA cars are available for the Fremont-SF trains.
PS This situation is also a reminder of poor design of the Bayfair station when the Dublin branch was built. A third track and second platform would make a far more flexible station.
> every train short turning
> every train short turning at Bayfair should mean EXTRA cars are available
There are two "extra" trains, which makes for 12 extra cars.
I sent (pretty much) the same
I sent (pretty much) the same post as I put here to the BART Board of Directors, and here's the response I just got:
---------------------------------
Mr. Crew,
Thank you for sharing your comments and observations on the Fremont to
Hayward BART segment in wake of the Hayward Yard fire. Your message will
be shared with the Board of Directors as you requested.
We sincerely regret the inconvenience you and all our riders have
experienced as a result of this fire. Most troubling is your impression
that no one is working to repair the damage. I assure you this is not the
case, and I hope that a more detailed explanation of the extensive damage
to our system will help to allay that perception of indifference.
Our employees have done a remarkable job of minimizing the impact to our
customers. The damage caused by the fire was far more than a burned out
transformer; the entire Hayward Yard was rendered inoperable, and fully one
quarter of BART’s fleet of trains, maintenance workers, train operators,
and the supplies and parts needed to maintain the cars were located there.
The logistics nightmare of relocating the people, trains and items needed
to support the running of those trains was handled as quickly as possible,
and the majority of these temporary moves has taken place. Furthermore,
the electrical damage to the train control system means that trains between
South Hayward and Union City are operating on “manual,” which translates to
the 6 to 8 minute slower travel times you have been experiencing.
Significant District resources, both financial and personnel, have been
diverted from their regular positions to restore normal operations of the
system as quickly as possible.
As we continue to repair the damage, it is important to keep in mind that
in addition to the loss of train control, the electrical damage has reduced
our traction power capability such that we can only run about half of the
trains we normally do between just south of Bay Fair and Fremont. In
addition to the damages already identified and replacement gear on order,
we must continue to sift through the affected areas and systems as we may
yet discover other damage which was not readily apparent in the initial
diagnosis. Though recovery may take many more weeks, our first priority
remains the safe restoration of full service to pre-fire level.
Your comments regarding coverage in the press are well taken, and your
message will be forwarded to appropriate BART staff for consideration.
As improvements are made over the next several weeks, we hope that you will
find BART service restored to a reliable and efficient level.
Thank you once again for taking the time to express your concerns.
Patricia Williams
Assistant District Secretary
San Francisco Bay Area Rapid Transit District
300 Lakeside Drive, 23rd Floor, Oakland, California 94612
510.464.6084, fax: 510.464.6011
website: www.bart.gov
---------------------------------
I'm impressed, you got more
I'm impressed, you got more than a 'we're working on it' response. I'm sure the explanation was canned but at least they actually tried to address your concerns.
Yeah, hell I agree that that
Yeah, hell I agree that that is the best response so far. Maybe Linton tried saying this (after all) but I am sure his comments are cut to fit on the news. BART really was not designed with much in the way of contingency. I honestly can't say I am surprised since all kinds of minor shit brings the whole system to a grinding halt like those damn cover boards that no one checks and tree branches that BART knows exist close to its' tracks.
I have a question regarding
I have a question regarding the current service from Hayward on the Fremont-Richmond line. While Fremont-Daly City trains are running, is it true that all Fremont-Richmond trains terminate at Bay Fair?
Yes that is correct.
Yes that is correct.
I am totally sympathetic that
I am totally sympathetic that this is a huge inconvenience for passengers. But BART said initially that it would be at least six weeks before it could be fixed. I do fault BART for not letting the public know what is happening. However, as has been pointed out, this was a major catastrohpe that affected the entire BART system. BART maintains their substations on a regular basis so this is isn't due to deferred maintenance. The equipment is old.
The suggestion that BART post updates on its website is a good one. If nothing else, a projection of when the repairs will be complete, and as the date slips (becasuse it will, it's the nature of beast), explain why. This should be a standing advisory for the new web link with train arrival times.
It is amazing to read from someone that BART doesn't care about the problem and is no hurry to fix it. Just incredible.
I think a lot of people think
I think a lot of people think a lack of communication equals a lack of caring.
"I am totally sympathetic
"I am totally sympathetic that this is a huge inconvenience for passengers."
I ride from Union City to Embarcadero. Today BART ran a 8-car SF train that was standing room only from the time it left Fremont. Why isn't BART running 10-car trains? It is guaranteed to be full before it even leaves the Fremont station.
Better yet, BART could help out by changing the line to a Fremont-Richmond line. Have the SF-bound passengers get off at South Hayward and send a SF train from the yard to take us on our way.
By the time the train leaves South Hayward, it is really packed full. I can only hope that the transformers are fixed in a few weeks.
Where were you located on
Where were you located on this 8 car train? In the middle?
Twice last week I took an
Twice last week I took an 8-car train leaving Fremont (7:30 and 7:45 am) that was SRO even in the first car.
And again today (lead car, 8
And again today (lead car, 8 car SF train from Fremont at 7:45 am). I really wish they'd put a 10-car train on this run. (BTW, I HAVE seen 10-car trains in Fremont since the fire, so it's doable.)
Perhaps they can't run a 10
Perhaps they can't run a 10 car train due to traction power in the affected area. Does anyone remember being on a 10 car train to/from Fremont after the accident?
There are so many cliches I
There are so many cliches I can think of to illustrate this Hayward issue. I think it is absolutely great that people voice their opinions on the matter. BART keeps functioning on this "just in time system" where is little to no contingency for anyting. Like I have bitched about time and time again, simple shit brings BART to its' knees and management throws ole boy Linton in front of the cameras to put a spin on it while riders take it up the ass. Politicians (BART board) will be politicians; if there isn't anything to adavance their political career or line their pockets, you are not aout to get anything out of them. Why BART is running short trains, not providing accurate schedules and keeping a tight
lip about repairs? THEY DO NIT CARE!
Absolutely no one who really cares about something, and has the power to change it, gives lip service with no action. I think anyone who believes BART really cares about passengers who are getting screwed on this Fremont line are being too DOGMATIC. Make BART management more accountable, they work for us (although you gotta wonder if it's the other way around).
Remember this ain't really effecting the entire system like they want you to think. Fremont line riders are the ones with the crappy commute. PBP still gets priority service with little to no interruption.
"Remember this ain't really
"Remember this ain't really effecting the entire system like they want you to think. Fremont line riders are the ones with the crappy commute. PBP still gets priority service with little to no interruption."
I do not believe that you have any idea what is being "affected" by Hayward Yd being off-line, and I am certain that you do not know who cares and who does not.
MAINTENANCE: BART lost 30-35% of its vehicle maintenance capability and storage, which is being absorbed by the remaining yards and shops. Yes, Hayward Shop personnel are working at the other shops but how many cooks can fit around one stove? The equipment required for maintaining the revenue cars does not come in a Craftsman toolbox. Rebuilding traction motors and turning wheels requires equipment that is not very portable and requires shop space to set up...BART does not have a lot of empty shops in the yards.
OPERATIONS: Everyday on the BART system there are medical emergencies, criminal incidents, wayside and vehicle equipment failures (some are even caused by patrons jamming doors open), sporting and special events, etc. that make it very difficult if not impossible to keep trains within the posted schedule. BART does care and tries extremely hard to maintain the schedule as best as possible. Maintaining on-time performance is a challenge for the Transportation staff when the system was 100% operational.
Now BART is expected to maintain the same standard of service with a 30-35% loss in capacity? Sorry but it is not possible, and will not be possible for at least 6-months, IMO. The fire that destroyed the substation at Hayward also destroy 90% on the train control cabling which controls trains on the mainline and in the yard. No automatic train operation, no remote switching at interlockings (crossovers between mainline tracks and in/out of the yard), and no traction power for the yard other than what has been jumpered in from mainline.
CAP LOCKING is not going to make anything happen any faster. There is major damage to multiple complex, technical systems. I understand about "being in the dark" because BART isn't giving progress reports but get real. If BART did post weekly progress reports, how many would really understand what was posted? First, the engineers did a visual assessment of the damage that they could see...if they posted what they saw, who would understand? Then they brought in on-call consultant expertise to give a more detailed assessment, and found that things were even worse than the engineers estimated...if that assessment was posted, who would understand anything other than the statement that it would be 6-months not the 6-weeks that the engineers thought? Would telling Joe/Jane Patron that the entire multiplex system was wiped out help them to understand the magnitude? Please...
Also, comparing this to highway/bridge repair project is ridiculous. There are literally several hundred bridge contractors in the USA, and less than ten train control equipment manufacturing companies worldwide. The repairs necessary cannot be done with excavators and cranes. The train control equipment alone will require replacing 1500 conductors--install, test, terminate and then test again. It is actually more work than a new build since the damaged equipment must be removed first. BART does not stock enough equipment needed for the repair, nor does it have the personnel to manage the repairs--it will have to go out for bid, likely Time & Materials. The good news is that this is not something entirely new to BART...having completed two extension programs within the last ten years, BART has good contacts with qualified contractors and still has boiler plate contract spec documents that can be developed for bid purposes. However, this will not be completed soon folks, and NOT because BART does not care...but because it just takes time. Again, all IMO.
Sorry if this comes across as terse at times...I just really hate to be labeled as a shiftless and non-caring civil servant. :^/
First, THANKS FOR THE
First, THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION!!! The more I communicate with BART employees, especially those in engineering, the more I realize how important the Hayward Yard is to the BART system as a whole. Additionally, the scale of the destruction is hard to appreciate until you talk to someone at BART who has some knowledge.
I work at 300 Lakeshore drive, but I don't work for BART. However, I do, sometimes catch a BART engineer or two in the elevator, or at Nick's Cafe, and I ask them how work is coming along in Hayward. One day, one of them mentioned to me that about 35k miles of cable/wiring had been destroyed in the fire; he also mentioned that figuring out what all that wiring did and where it went would be a major undertaking.
I do appreciate providing frequent reports, especially to the public, can cause undue strain on the recovery work. However, I also know that there has to be a project manager, more likely several PMs, out there with Gantt charts who have to provide reports to upper management. Providing even more simplified information for public consumption should not be too difficult.
The yellow sheets, and the revised Fremont/Hayward schedules posted in the train stations have not been unnoticed, and are very appreciated. "Joe/Jane Patron" are stakeholders in the BART system as much as any BART employee. We depend on BART for transportation, we pay fees and taxes to BART, and we expect a certain level of service. If that level of service cannot be met, a certain level of explanation as to why seems perfectly reasonable. Also, don't underestimate BART's patronage... Between the universities, and the tech companies, the Bay Area is home to a good chunk of the smartest people on the planet.