Handicap and Senior seating
BART has been a constant source of frustration for me. I rarely get a seat on the train unless it's during off-hours (between rush hour). When I used to work full-time, I stood a good amount of the time. So what's the big deal, you might ask? I have multiple sclerosis and walk with a cane. My mobility and balance are severely limited and I certainly don't have the strength in my arms anymore to hold onto a bar while the train is moving. And yes, I have even asked for a seat to no avail. I don't know if they think I'm trying to pull a fast one on them to get a seat because I'm young (in 30's) or what, but it's very frustrating.
So who sit in the handicap/senior seats? Everyone who shouldn't be sitting there including the following repeat offenders:
* 20-something-year-olds who pretend to sleep while listening to their i-pods
* Middle aged business men who conduct work on their laptops
* Mothers with baby strollers
* Bicycle riders who sit in these seats and put the bike in front of them
* People with large suitcases going to the airport( my personal pet peeve)
Placards are posted behind the seats to inform riders that it is federal law to provide seating to people with disabilities, seniors and others who may need assistance. The message is also displayed on the monitors at each BART station. Do people read or better yet, do they care? Some do, but most don't. Ironically middle-aged women offer seats before others do.
Here are my suggestions to BART:
* Monitor and enforce the law; if BART police can come on the trains with dogs then they should also be able to enforce the seating (ask to see the tickets and RTC cards); impose a hefty penalty of $500 to those in violation.
* Install heavy-duty, overhead racks above all seats so backpacks, luggage, etc. can be stored without clogging up isles and without taking seats near the door needed by seniors/disabled people.
* Install bike racks in designated cars (i.e. one in the front car and one in the back) away from escalators and elevators that handicap/seniors use to get down to the train and enforce the bike rule even during off-peak hours.
* CLEAN the cars! Elderly people and some people with disabilities have compromised immune systems which means they get sick easily. Only picking up garbage from the trains won't help. Disinfect the cars, clean the window sills (they are filthy with dirt and saliva), replace the seat covers with something more conducive to cleaning or something that is easy to remove and replace monthly, and disinfect the metal bars which harbor bacteria.
* Run more trains during the weekday, not just during the weekend.
I want something done about this. If simple changes like these can't be met, why are we even paying for a rate increase?
First off, let me say
First off, let me say welcome to BARTRage. Heh heh... based on your post I think you have the general idea of the site.
I agree with your observations and am sorry you've met with the situations you have.
Several things you ranted about others have too including cleaning the cars, better/more service, however I feel I must point out the following:
You can't impose a penalty on these seats without first proving a disabled/elderly person requested a seat and was denied and/or none of the non-disabled/elderly offered when they saw a disabled/elderly enter. It's not illegal to sit there if there are no disabled/elderly!
Overhead racks and/or bike racks would eat into space better suited for packing us like sardines. (One of) the major complaints on this site, and indeed one of yours, is that there's not enough service - so removing potential seats and standing room would only serve to make things worse.
HOWEVER, that said, I think you're on to something... all too often the handicapped/elderly seats are taken by moms and strollers, bikers and their bikes, businessmen with briefcases that should rightly be classified as checked baggage (I had one of those on my way in this morning... his briefcase was like a large box!), and people either a) going to/from the airport with a ton of luggage or b) coming from shopping with a ton of purchases because it's the only place large and open enough to accomodate them. It would be interesting to explore some sort of option whereby said people could store their belongings a la the shuttle from the airport parking to the terminal.
You can never have a bike on the first car... not sure why other than they don't want you blocking the TO from screaming like a little girl and running from the train when it crashes and/or catches fire or the transbay collapses. (JOKE train operators!! that's called a JOKE!!! put the flame down and back slowly away from the flame.) Seriously, I'm sure it has to do with not blocking the TO should s/he need to leave the booth.
All THAT said, and with due respect to your health issue and those of others, if your immune system is compromised enough that a ride on BART is going to be hazardous... ummmmm... don't ride BART? And those 20-something year olds - and anyone else for that matter - that (pretend to) sleep whilst sitting in the reserved seats - they shouldn't be sleeping, their choice of seat means they should remain awake to ensure no elderly or disabled need their seat. However, if they're asleep (or pretending to be) you have 2 choices, you can fume about it and stand despite not being able to, or you can tap them on the shoulder and point out what I said above - "you really shouldn't be sleeping when people like myself might need these seats - would you mind allowing me to sit please?"
And if anyone should scoff, perhaps thinking that using a cane can mean anything from having twisted your ankle to god-knows-what, take the opportunity to educate them. Explain you have M.S. and what M.S. is and does to your body. We can never have enough enlightened people in this world!
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"All THAT said, and with due
"All THAT said, and with due respect to your health issue and those of others, if your immune system is compromised enough that a ride on BART is going to be hazardous... ummmmm... don't ride BART? And those 20-something year olds - and anyone else for that matter - that (pretend to) sleep whilst sitting in the reserved seats - they shouldn't be sleeping, their choice of seat means they should remain awake to ensure no elderly or disabled need their seat. However, if they're asleep (or pretending to be) you have 2 choices, you can fume about it and stand despite not being able to, or you can tap them on the shoulder and point out what I said above - "you really shouldn't be sleeping when people like myself might need these seats - would you mind allowing me to sit please?"
I have tried to awaken the sleeping punk asses only to be met with cold stares and inaction. My only option at that point was to hang on for dear life as the doors closed. I can't simply "run" through a sea of bodies to a call button on a moving train. I'll end up on the floor and probably take a few people with me.
I have no choice other than to ride public transportation due to my eyesight (affected by the MS). My neurologist has advised me not to drive. So what am I supposed to do? Call a cab to take me from Concord to SF? I think not. It's my right to take public transportation like everyone else. I should not have to pay hundreds of dollars a year just so some Prada-wearing trophy wife or her sugar daddy from Orinda or Lafayette can sit in "first class."
Clearly, the BART board cares nothing about the handicapped because the handicapped haven't made it politically necessary to do so. What it'll take (besides a lawsuit) is to get the board so embattled over this issue and others that its members will act to save their own backsides. BART has a handicapped advisory board that has obviously failed to demand reforms. What good would it be to try to work within that system? The board needs to be publicly shamed into action.
If the powers that be wanted to, they could pass a law that only those who could prove they are 65 or older or who have RTC cards are allowed to use certain seats and then fine others found sitting there. The "honor system" doesn't work. If you think it does, try making compliance with traffic and parking regulations voluntary.
Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on a bus and move to an area designated for African Americans. Five decades later, handicapped Americans who are a protected class under federal law just like African Americans are, have seats designated for them yet aren't allowed to sit in them. Perhaps it's going to take acts of civil disobedience and protest to guarantee future generations of disabled folks the same access to public transportation that the actions of Rosa Parks and many others guaranteed for today's African Americans.
Your complaint is completely
Your complaint is completely valid. If I may I suggest using the first car, where the train operator can see you not getting a seat. Most train operators are pretty good at enforcing the laws, and they can let the train sit there until someone moves for you (it won't sit long). I would also let the operator know you routinely have a problem getting a seat and you really need to sit. Do this on your way out of the train, to every train operator you encounter. (This might be more than you'd like to do, but it's a way to let the operators know there is a problem.) Believe it or not, BART police will get involved, especially because this is a safety issue for you. If the train operator does not feel that it is safe to move the train, it won't move in most cases. (I wouldn't say BPS will always show up, but it isn't necessarily something they'd ignore.)
If I may also comment on a few of your suggestions:
# Overhead luggage storage is too much of a safety problem. Doors are not open long enough for people to retrieve their luggage from an overhead compartment that would also be safe. I would venture to say most people are not strong enough to lift their bags over their heads, and pulling them down could cause someone to be injured if the bag accidentally falls. I think a better alternative would be special cars designed for luggage, bikes, etc. This is not likely to happen because of the way the trains are put together. (Luggage is one of my pet peevs too, especially when the entire first car is filled with it, but bikes aren't allowed??)
# Because of an injury to my shoulder I have difficulty carrying my bike up the stairs. I never take it up the escalator, but the elevator is a necessity for me.
# I do know the cleaners work every night to get the cars clean, but there are not enough of them. Also, the seat cushions are removable, but I think just like the carpets being removed and other changes BART is making, it takes time and money. The trains are only down for about 3 hours every night (except weekends) and there are not enough cleaners or maintenance/repair people to get everything done. (I am not trying to counter what you are saying--I agree BART needs to work harder at getting these cars cleaned. I think the cleaning, or lack thereof, is a money matter.)
# Trains are running more often, every 15 minutes instead of every 20. This may not be enough, but that 5 minutes is a huge deal logistically.
Maybe someone with more information can put their 2 cents in.
thanks for the suggestions
thanks for the suggestions we'll get right on it.
Public transportation is not
Public transportation is not for everyone. If BART is a "constant source of frustration", maybe you shouldn't ride it. Try using a means of transportation where you have more control over your environment. BART is public transportation, not a car service or private shuttle.
saw1972 "* Monitor and
saw1972
"* Monitor and enforce the law; if BART police can come on the trains with dogs then they should also be able to enforce the seating (ask to see the tickets and RTC cards); impose a hefty penalty of $500 to those in violation."
My question is "What Law"?
I have noticed that lack of enforcement on disabled seating is a common complaint, yet I have never seen anyone that has pointed out a specific law that allows this seating violations to be enforced against individuals. As far as I can tell, the law only requires that BART makes seating available and if they don't have the seating and signs, that they can be sued under the Americans With Disabilities Act. As a matter of fact, it appears that there are no criminal violations under this act, only civil violations that allow the person to sue. I have been unable to locate any law that allows enforcement against passengers that occupy these seats when someone else that is disabled wants it. I would also think that enforcement of such a law would be almost impossible. Not all disabilities are obvious and there is no regulation that requires disabled persons to carry special identification proving their disability.
This issue has been
This issue has been extensively discussed. You can't force someone to move, but you can create a scene if you really want and get them shamed into moving. The only time BART Police will get involved is if someone is blocking your movement about the train towards the seat. The law isn't vague enough that it could be applied to pick and chose seats.
The same reasons we don't ask everyone sitting in those seats for ID is because not everyone's disability is visible externally. BART Police allow people to drink water on BART because some people have a disability or condition (such as diabetes) that is not necessarily visible externally and requires they consume a lot of fluid.
Basically, my point is this.
If you feel that you need police assistance (even if it is just having an Officer show up and talk it out), by all means, please call the BART Police. Sometimes the threat of police response will be enough to make people move, but there is no telling if an Officer will help or hurt your cause - depends on who he/she is - but it's worth a try if you feel it is necessary.
Best of luck to you.
Shrapnel
BARTRage.com Co-Moderator
BARTRage.Moderators@gmail.com
this is a direct quote from
this is a direct quote from the federal transit administration's website:
"Each car shall contain sign(s) which indicate that certain seats
are priority seats for persons with disabilities and that other
passengers should make such seats available to those who wish to use
them."
I know that BART's signs say "federal law requires these seats be made available..." to me, it sounds like the requirement is strictly limited to BART being required to have x number of ADA seats. but, the law only states that passengers SHOULD make such seats available to THOSE WHO WISH TO USE THEM. seems pretty clear that there are no ramifications for not giving up a seat.
New invention: Stun gun
New invention: Stun gun canes with pepper spray handles.... maybe a laser sight.
Maybe ask the agent for assistance getting a seat or if you can make it to the T/O at the lead unit I'm 99% sure they will help, I know I would.
As for making the seats
As for making the seats available to ONLY people 65+ or with disabilities, im against it because these are the only seats i can sit in with my musical instrument. However, if someone who needs the seat (i.e seniors or handicapped who cant make it to another seat or is in a wheel chair) I ALWAYS move! I also move if there are no seats left on the train and people are beginning to stand. There is no reason why if others are standing and I am taking up either 2 or 4 seats why I deserve to keep sitting.
I have been known to not move if people stand and there are more than 10+ seats in the car and the people standing are clearly not handicapped or elderly
And what the heck are people
And what the heck are people with children in strollers supposed to do? Block the aisles further down? There are very few places on a BART train where you can stand or sit with something as bulky as a stroller without blocking the way.
Providing seats for those
Providing seats for those with disabilities is not required by law, it is required by the Federal Government as one of the qualifications for federal funding.
Then it's time to gather
Then it's time to gather evidence that BART is not doing enough to provide seating and sue BART under the Americans With Disabilities Act. At the same time, attack BART's federal funding through administrative proceedings. Pick the BART board member with the most to lose politically (or, in the alternative, the most vulnerable one) and get that individual so embattled over this issue and others -- related or unrelated -- that the other members do something out of fear for their own careers. Government officials generally don't respond to nice, reasoned rhetoric or even the contents of a law book. All they understand is the butt of a rifle crashing into their eggshell skulls (figuratively, of course). Fellow disabled BART riders, let's give 'em one chance to do it the easy way, then game on!
don't forget to ram your
don't forget to ram your wheelchairs into the ankles of any passengers on a packed car who can't get out of your way (so to increase the numbers in you ranks).
this could backfire bigtime,
this could backfire bigtime, especially since bart really is doing nothing wrong IMO (nothing wrong with regard to the ADA issues you speak of). suppose they say "fuck you, we don't need no stinking federal funding" and they just double fares, become a much more profitable operation, and take away the few "ada" seats they currently have in the process.
Agreed... a lot of people
Agreed... a lot of people do not understand or appreciate what they have. BART would be a lot more expensive without federal funds. Likely beyond the reach of most people on disability.
How would a disabled person get from Concord to SF with out BART?
People seem to think they have a constitutional right to a seat on the bus, a free ride on BART, the right to smoke, the right not to breath your smoke, etc..
Last time I checked NONE of these where listed in the constitution...
Actually, Congress and the
Actually, Congress and the courts have determined that the handicapped DO have a right to a certain number of seats on BART. That doesn't mean they're guaranteed a seat or a free ride. It means that a certain number of seats must be reserved for seniors and the disabled. It's the same with buildings. A certain number of handicapped parking spaces must be provided based upon the estimated occupancy of the building. In order to park in a handicapped space, I must have a placard or license plate issued by the state. If I don't, I could be fined a few hundred bucks. It would cost little to pass a law mandating that BART riders who sit in certain seats must have RTC cards or proof of age or face similar fines.
The argument that BART would turn down federal funds because of an issue like this is specious. BART wouldn't turn down money from the feds no matter what strings were attached. Going after an agency's funding is one of the best ways to accomplish any agenda. Trust me, BART won't do the right thing unless its board and managers feel some fear and pain. Why? I imagine they like marketing the seats by the door to the laptop-stroller-rolling-luggage crowd instead of the disabled folks for whom they were intended.
It's easy to say that things aren't that bad on BART for the handicapped when you don't have a disability. Believe me, you can wake up one morning and find yourself disabled. Although I wouldn't wish multiple sclerosis on my worst enemy, I do wish you could live with it long enough to ride standing up in a packed car from the Embarcadero to Orinda. I'll bet you'd be at the very next BART board meeting demanding reform.
please re-read what I had
please re-read what I had said.
I did not say that there should not be any disabled seating I was just clarifying that is not a right (as defined in the constitution) but simply a requirement attached to funding measures and grants.
Your reply stating I need to suffer because of my statements clearly shows you have some issues beyond the context of this forum topic.
Contact your BART Board of
Contact your BART Board of Director and demand that they pass a BART Resolution (BART's version or a City Ordinance) that reads something like New York Transits. The problem with BART is that they want people to obey the rules, but they fail to pass laws that allow them to be enforced. If BART had a law like the New York Transit law listed below, violators could be cited by the police.
http://www.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htm
Section 1050.6
e. • No person shall refuse or fail to relinquish a seat on a conveyance which has been designated as “PRIORITY SEATING,” “WHEELCHAIR PRIORITY SEATING” or words of similar import, if requested to do so by or on behalf of a person with a disability, or occupying any location on a conveyance designated for use by persons using wheelchairs if such location is required to accommodate a person using a wheelchair. Further, passengers aboard buses equipped with wheelchair lift devices shall not conduct themselves in a manner which will impede the operation of such lifts, impede the securing of wheelchairs in the tie-down devices located on such buses or impede the exit of passengers using wheelchairs.
now that we've gone through
now that we've gone through all this, who has actually seen an OBVIOUSLY handicap person be denied a seat??? i can honestly say i have NEVER seen this happen. whenever someone that is handicap gets on a train, there is at least one person jumping up to immediately offer their seat.
i cannot recall a time where a handicap person had to even ASK for a seat. and if it did get to that point, i cannot immagine that one of the four people in the ADA seats wouldn't immediately stand up. i'm starting a poll about this...
I see it happen and remedy
I see it happen and remedy it in the lead unit with a PA announcement every time it happens.
I know it's hard for you to
I know it's hard for you to get around. I don't know how severe your MS is. I'm not insensitive, but have you tried moving to another car? Don't bite my head off - I'm just asking that's all.